Obama Killing Veterans.

The VA is killing veterans putting them on a waiting list than hiding their deaths because they could not get care fast enough. This is an outrage Obama needs to be held accountable.

That's government run health care for you.

Death Panels? Seriously this is an outrage and yet I'm not seeing the outrage.

First off, Obama has nothing to do with it. Secondly, it's the Phoenix VA center, not the entire system.

Phoenix VA

Granted, it's still unacceptable, but that's all we get. The bottom line is, nothing is going to change. They'll just wait until something else "flashy" hit the news, then it's back to normal.

http://weaselzippers.us/184820-veterans-affairs-cancelled-1-5-million-unresolved-requests-for-appointments/

Not the same thing, Ford.

Finally McCain speaks up. http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/09/sen-mccain-if-va-hospitals-cooked-books-on-wait-times-people-should-go-to-jail/

So Shinseki resigned. Well that will get the heat off, but all Obama will do is put another "yes man" in his place. They too will promise better treatment of our Veterans, but it just isn't going to happen.

People treat this like it's something new. Wake up!

This has reached 26 VA hospitals. We were only told Phoenix. This is a wide spread problem.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

This has reached 26 VA hospitals. We were only told Phoenix. This is a wide spread problem.

Based off of what?

Bandit wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

This has reached 26 VA hospitals. We were only told Phoenix. This is a wide spread problem.

Based off of what?

(CNN) -- At least 1,700 military veterans waiting to see a doctor were never scheduled for an appointment and were never placed on a wait list at the Veterans Affairs medical center in Phoenix, raising the question of just how many may have been "forgotten or lost" in the system, according to a preliminary report made public Wednesday.

Describing a "systemic" practice of manipulating appointments and wait lists at the Phoenix Health Care System, the VA's Office of Inspector General called for a nationwide review to determine whether veterans at other locations were falling through the cracks.






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Scathing report released on VA scandal

It also appears to indicate the scope of the inquiry is rapidly widening, with 42 VA medical centers across the country now under investigation for possible abuse of scheduling practices, according to the report.

Among the findings at the Phoenix VA, investigators determined one consequence of manipulating appointments for the veterans was understating patient wait times -- a factor considered for VA employee bonuses and raises, the report said.

An investigation by the Office of Inspector General is underway at 26 VA facilities after at least 40 former U.S. service members died while awaiting treatment at a VA facility in Phoenix.

According To An Inspector’s Report, A VA Clinic In Colorado “Falsified Appointment Records To Give The Impression That Staff Doctors Had Seen Patients Within The Agency’s Goal Of 14 Days.” “Similarly, a new report from the VA’s Office of the Medical Inspector said a department clinic in Fort Collins, Colo., falsified appointment records to give the impression that staff doctors had seen patients within the agency’s goal of 14 days. USA Today first revealed the findings in an article on Sunday.” (Josh Hicks, “American Legion Calls For Resignation Of VA Secretary Eric Shinseki,” The Washington Post , 5/5/14)

A VA Scheduling Clerk Said Officials In San Antonio And Austin Manipulated Appointment Data To Conceal Long Wait Times. “A Department of Veterans Affairs scheduling clerk has accused VA officials in Austin and San Antonio of manipulating medical appointment data in an attempt to hide long wait times to see doctors and psychiatrists, the American-Statesman has learned.” (Jeremy Schwartz, “VA Employee: Wait List Data Was Manipulated In Austin, San Antonio,” Austin American-Statesman , 5/6/14)

The Hines VA Medical Center Used A Secret Waiting List To Hide Appointment Delays So Managers Could Receive Bonuses And Recognition. WYATT ANDREWS: “Germaine Clarno is a VA social worker and employee representative in Chicago. She alleges there are multiple secret waiting lists of veterans kept here at the Hines VA Medical Center. Which divisions of the hospital kept these secret waiting lists?” GERMAINE CLARNO: “Well, employees are coming to me from all over the hospital, from out-patient, in-patient, surgery, radiology.” ANDREWS: “Clarno says veterans were put on secret waiting lists when they called for an appointment but wouldn’t formally get an appointment booked in the computer until one came up within the VA’s goal of 14 days. The purpose of the list, she says, was to hide how often veterans were not being seen on time. Is it too strong to call this fraud?” CLARNO: “No.”ANDREWS: “To what purpose?” CLARNO: “To make the numbers look better for their own recognition and for bonuses.” ( CBS Evening News, 5/13/14)

Gainesville, Florida

Three Administrators Have Been Placed On Administrative Leave After A “Secret” Waiting List Of Over 200 Patients Was Discovered At A Gainesville Facility. ” Three mental health administrators at the Malcom Randall VA Medical Center in Gainesville have been placed on administrative leave after U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs officials found a ‘secret’ waiting list of more than 200 patients, a local union president said Thursday.” (Morgan Watkins, “Source: 3 Suspended At Gainesville VA Over Mental Health Waiting List,” Ocala Star Banner, 5/15/14)

Cheyenne, Wyoming

An Employee At A Wyoming VA Facility Has Been Placed On Administrative Leave Over The Growing Scandal Of Appointment Manipulations. “A growing scandal over the manipulation of health care appointments resulted in an employee at a Wyoming clinic of the Department of Veterans Affairs being placed on administrative leave, VA Secretary Eric Shinseki said Friday.” (Drew Griffin, Scott Bronstein, Nelli Black, And Ray Sanchez, “VA Clinic Employee On Leave After E-Mail About Manipulating Appointments,” CNN, 5/10/14)
Email By A Cheyenne VA Employee: “Yes, It Is Gaming The System A Bit. But You Have To Know The Rules Of The Game You Are Playing, And When We Exceed The 14-Day Measure, The Front Office Gets Very Upset, Which Doesn’t Help Us.” “An e-mail allegedly written by an employee in Cheyenne, obtained by CNN, says: ‘Yes, it is gaming the system a bit. But you have to know the rules of the game you are playing, and when we exceed the 14-day measure, the front office gets very upset, which doesn’t help us. Let me know if this doesn’t make sense.’” (Drew Griffin, Scott Bronstein, Nelli Black, And Ray Sanchez, “VA Clinic Employee On Leave After E-Mail About Manipulating Appointments,” CNN, 5/10/14)

I have more if you want them Bandit.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

I have more if you want them Bandit.

I can and do read the news Vulcan. At no point has anything been reported to even imply this is wide spread.

There are over 158 VA Medical Centers (Hospitals) with at least one in every state, PR and DC. In addition to that are 1400 clinics spread throughout the U.S. civilian communities.

Yet they are only looking at a quarter of the Hospitals, and a few clinics.

You said it was wide spread. So again, based off of what?

Bandit wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

I have more if you want them Bandit.

I can and do read the news Vulcan. At no point has anything been reported to even imply this is wide spread.

There are over 158 VA Medical Centers (Hospitals) with at least one in every state, PR and DC. In addition to that are 1400 clinics spread throughout the U.S. civilian communities.

Yet they are only looking at a quarter of the Hospitals, and a few clinics.

You said it was wide spread. So again, based off of what?

You were making it sound like it was only Phoenix. If I misunderstood my apologies. However one report has it up to 40 plus. That is nothing to sneeze at. But I bet this goes far deeper. I hope I am wrong on this.

Apparently if only a quarter of VA hospitals are killing their patients, then it's nothing to worry about.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

You were making it sound like it was only Phoenix. If I misunderstood my apologies. However one report has it up to 40 plus. That is nothing to sneeze at. But I bet this goes far deeper. I hope I am wrong on this.

At that time, it was only Phoenix that was reported. I could have expanded in that post, absolutely. But explaining this would take more than your self claimed attention span of 3 minutes.

As I said in my post, even to have this at one center is unacceptable. But I understand what happened and why. Far deeper? You have no idea.

Bandit wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

You were making it sound like it was only Phoenix. If I misunderstood my apologies. However one report has it up to 40 plus. That is nothing to sneeze at. But I bet this goes far deeper. I hope I am wrong on this.

At that time, it was only Phoenix that was reported. I could have expanded in that post, absolutely. But explaining this would take more than your self claimed attention span of 3 minutes.

As I said in my post, even to have this at one center is unacceptable. But I understand what happened and why. Far deeper? You have no idea.

Hold on minute buddy. I know why it happened. It happened because incompetent people organizing the hospitals. Now it might even expand to more hospitals. The biggest mistake is not having an administrator who is in the health care field running the show. Funding is not the problem. Funding has sky rocketed in for the last 5 years. The whole system is bloated. I am a vet and no way would I use the VA. Even though they have been asking me to sign up for years.

A war hero should have never been hired. Yes he was a four star general but not a four star general in the health field. You cannot fire anyone because congress will not allow the hospital admin to do it. Oh and my attention span on this is very long thank you.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Hold on minute buddy. I know why it happened. It happened because incompetent people organizing the hospitals. Now it might even expand to more hospitals. The biggest mistake is not having an administrator who is in the health care field running the show. Funding is not the problem. Funding has sky rocketed in for the last 5 years. The whole system is bloated. I am a vet and no way would I use the VA. Even though they have been asking me to sign up for years.

A war hero should have never been hired. Yes he was a four star general but not a four star general in the health field. You cannot fire anyone because congress will not allow the hospital admin to do it. Oh and my attention span on this is very long thank you.

Wow bro, just wow. You really don't know, do you? At this point, I'm really not sure what to say. You're wrong on everything. In the years I've known you, while quite opinionated, I've never known you to lie, so I'll take your word, you will be paying attention.

First off, the administrator. In the medical field, the Army, Navy and Air Force only have 1 billet for a 3 star. That person is the Surgeon General for their service. The US Surgeon General is in fact an Admiral (always has been), and never higher than 3 stars. So where do we get a 4 star from? Remember, Congress approves promotions above Colonel/Captain. Nobody in the medical corps needs one. That I'm aware of, only one has EVER become the Secretary of VA, and that was the guy that Shinseki replaced (Peake). More on this later.

Second, Shinseki was never a "war hero". He was a commanding officer (CPT) in Nam, stepped on a landmine, lost part of his foot. Got a "V" in his bronze star and a purple heart. That's it, nothing more. So don't believe everything the media spews out. Despite retiring in 2003, he never saw combat again. Compare him to Gordon Mansfield, then lets talk about "war hero's" in the VA admin.

Lastly (for this post) you feel funding is not the problem and the whole system is bloated. There are over 20 million vets alive today. Of those, 13 million are from WW2 through Vietnam (1975). If you were paying attention, the VFW and other veteran groups lashed out, not at Obama, or Shinseki, but the Senate and House (Congress). An article I read stated it had been almost 40 years since Congress screwed veterans, and they were disgusted they got caught doing it again.

Veterans I had made friends with, told me what happened back then. To save money and make room for vets from Nam, Congress changed the criteria needed to qualify for VA health care, thus kicking the vets from WW2 and Korea to the curb. Additionally, it made it more difficult for qualifying veterans to get timely care. We were put in "Priority Groups". There are 9. As you are employed, and never said you were disabled due to military service, but are a gulf war vet with no PH or MOH, you fall in Group 6, however because you were actually at sea, I'm not sure. That group is ALL IMPORTANT, but more on that later.

VA has been underfunded and under resourced, since the end of WW2. Most of what (facilities) we have today, we have Omar Bradley to thank. Sadly, it means they're also 60 years old, or older. Since 2009, there have been only 5 new hospitals, and those were intended for Gulf War vets. In the 1930's we had just over 50 (I think). Filled to capacity, just how many veterans do you think they all can take?

Would you like to know more?

OH I am sorry Shinseki I was talking about. I don't care what rank they hire just someone who can run it be a civilian or military. But if I am not mistaken Shinseki is a four star general. If I am wrong I apologize. But the military does have people that run hospitals and multiple clinics. The one that the base where I live is under was Bethesda but it has changed. As far as Shinseki I was just calling him what the media called him. Guess I should have known better.

The VA has always had problems. That is why I turned them down when they asked me. I am not saying it is bloated I am saying it is mismanaged. They need a group like Sentara to come in and manage it. They are experienced in running multiple hospitals.