Killing a bunch of civilians that were doing nothing but standing in the streets peacefully talking. Then coming back and killing even more when people were trying to gather the wounded and take them to hospital. Nobody ever fired on the US helicopters.
eber322
Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan
Subject: Re: Killing civilians for fun, US style. Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:23 pm
Does any of this mean that all our troops, or even most of our troops are bad? No. But it does prove that there is more than enough unwarranted violence done by our troops to make sure everybody in Iraq and Afghanistan hates our guts. And this is why most of the world hates our guts, not only do we do stuff like this, but we're doing it in places we don't even belong in the first place.
Pissedoffvulcan
Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Killing civilians for fun, US style. Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:43 pm
eber322 wrote:
Does any of this mean that all our troops, or even most of our troops are bad? No. But it does prove that there is more than enough unwarranted violence done by our troops to make sure everybody in Iraq and Afghanistan hates our guts. And this is why most of the world hates our guts, not only do we do stuff like this, but we're doing it in places we don't even belong in the first place.
In every tree there is a bad apple. What you just did is what the left was doing during the Bush administration. Yes people knows this goes on. However what was said is very misleading. I mean misleading. The number of criminals in the military if far less then in the civilian world.
Those are nothing more then hit pieces on the military by liberal people. I refuse to watch them until I find someone who has experience in combat. Then I will make the judgement. If this was true there would be many investigations on this. Watching Bomb Patrol Afghanistan they got ambushed. The ambushers just laid there arms down and walked away nothing those guys could do.
Sorry but I have a feeling these people have an agenda. Remember there are very liberal people in the military also. If this was true then they should be put in the brig for not reporting it to there command.
Sorry no commanding officer is going to risk his career. Something stinks here and something big.
eber322
Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan
Subject: Re: Killing civilians for fun, US style. Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:31 pm
Quote :
In every tree there is a bad apple.
Of course, but you guys were denying that our soldiers could/would do this stuff. These prove otherwise. It only takes one or two instances like this to make everybody hate us, there have been dozens... maybe hundreds.
BTW These are videos of combat soldiers, some of the videos are actual footage taken by soldiers while they shoot civilians who are guilty of nothing but driving down a road. The story released by Rolling Stone about soldiers killing a 15 year old unarmed kid, cutting off his finger as a trophy, and posing with his naked mutilated body is true. After R.S. broke the story, the military did prosecute the soldiers, they had no choice then. Some of these videos are of that group admitting to their crimes. There were two or three groups out on patrol who were having a contest to see how many people they could kill and taking trophies to prove it.
You can stick your head in the sand if you want, but these real videos of attacks and confessions made by actual combat vets pretty much prove the point of why the world hates us.
Pissedoffvulcan
Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Killing civilians for fun, US style. Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:50 pm
Of course, but you guys were denying that our soldiers could/would do this stuff.Being in the military I know there are bad people. But the number of bad people in the military is a far less percentage then the general public.
Quote :
BTW These are videos of combat soldiers, some of the videos are actual footage taken by soldiers while they shoot civilians who are guilty of nothing but driving down a road
I have not watched the video however I am would think that they were told to stop. A case in Washington DC a guy was driving through Andrews Air Force gate was told to halt and the guy said I am a first class petty officer I don't have to show my ID. The guy drove without showing his ID and the gate guard shot him dead.
The military was going to charge the gate guard but the uproar from all military ranks was great because they said if the guy would have been a terrorist and he did nothing then people would have died.
But I am going to agree ssv if this was true MSNBC would be plastering all over the place.
Now have soldiers been prosecuted for some things yes. Have soldiers been falsely accused of doing things. Haditha Marines Yes. Far more cases are proven false then are true. Of course the cases that are true in that are going to be sensationalized by the bad guys.
But we are forgetting some very important things. While you are prosecuting our soldiers we are forgetting the soldiers so long ago that were captured by terrorist in Iraq that were beheaded the civilians that were beheaded with a rusty blade. Please do not justify them beheading our soldiers because some of this bad stuff went.
Because America shuns behavior like that. These groups embrace it.
eber322
Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan
Subject: Re: Killing civilians for fun, US style. Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:31 pm
Pissedoffvulcan wrote:
Of course, but you guys were denying that our soldiers could/would do this stuff.Being in the military I know there are bad people. But the number of bad people in the military is a far less percentage then the general public.
I'm not disagreeing with that. My original point way back was that these things do happen and it only takes a few incidents for all the locals to hate the US. Again in that hypothetical situation where the Chinese invade Texas for "your own good", first you're already going to resent them being there, second after 3% of their troops randomly kill civilians and do a bunch of war crimes, are you going to say; "Well hey they have less criminals in their army then we do in the streets"? No, you're going to be pissed and hate them all. Doesn't matter if it's only 600 people (3% of their total force of 20,000), or only 150 or 50 people, that is way more than enough to give the whole force a bad name and make the entire country hate them even if they didn't to begin with.
Pissedoffvulcan wrote:
I have not watched the video however I am would think that they were told to stop.
No these soldiers weren't running a check stop. They were standing on a roof about a hundred, maybe two, yards away parallel to the road. A single bullet, presumably a sniper shot, came in at them. All they knew was it came from the general direction of somewhere on the other side of the road. So they opened fire on everybody and everything in sight, gunning down unarmed civilians in the street. They were still firing machine guns indiscriminately into every building in range for over a minute or two after they'd already shot the last person in sight.
At that point along comes a guy driving down the road in a white car, they strafe his car, he jumps out unarmed and runs crouched over towards the nearest building. They machine gun him in the back. They then machine gun another unarmed guy that comes running out of the same building right after that when he jumps in a different car and trys to escape. (EDIT)I just watched the video again and it was TWO white cars that they strafed and killed the people in just because they happened to come driving along.(EDIT)
The whole time they are cheering, yahooing and laughing as they kill people. After they stop shooting the one guy can be heard laughing and bragging; "Did you see the dude in the white car? He was running for the building and when I shot him I blew his @ss right through the doorway!"
Pissedoffvulcan wrote:
But I am going to agree ssv if this was true MSNBC would be plastering all over the place.
And they (major news media) did cover it. The first video I linked, which I now see has been removed by the poster, was a clip from CBS news. The video leaked by wikileaks that showed the US helicopter killing the civilians just standing in the streets, then returning and killing the people trying to take them to hospital was covered by all the big news services, I watched it on tv at the time. It was one of the biggest stories after that wikileaks indecent when all those government records got released to the public. You can find videos of that same news story on youtube from all the different news networks.
Pissedoffvulcan
Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Killing civilians for fun, US style. Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:56 pm
I will say in bases overseas rapes and murder go on by military members. You don't see the locals beheading them. They understand we have a process to deal with this.
eber322
Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan
Subject: Re: Killing civilians for fun, US style. Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:24 pm
I also know a lot of times crimes get covered up. We don't want to look bad, neither our military or our government. Do you think that if the army had got all those abu ghraib prison pictures out of circulation before the media got ahold of them we'd have ever heard about it? Hell no. Just like they never tell us about the civilians being killed until after the media reports it, then they make a big show out of punishing some people. Otherwise, nothing would probably have been done, maybe some reprimands given at worst.
Pissedoffvulcan
Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Killing civilians for fun, US style. Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:11 pm
eber322 wrote:
I also know a lot of times crimes get covered up. We don't want to look bad, neither our military or our government. Do you think that if the army had got all those abu ghraib prison pictures out of circulation before the media got ahold of them we'd have ever heard about it? Hell no. Just like they never tell us about the civilians being killed until after the media reports it, then they make a big show out of punishing some people. Otherwise, nothing would probably have been done, maybe some reprimands given at worst.
Being in the military that was never my experience. The Master at Arms was always out to get you also NCIS. We had a guy who beat the snot out of a heshe because he thought she was a girl and when he reached down he found something he didn't want to. Yes he was charged and convicted for beating a foreign national. I am not saying it does not happen but I am saying very rarely does it happen. Seen to many guys out in the local town get hammered for drug and such. No one would have known about it if those pictures did not come out. But was there really a crime? I mean putting underwear on some guys head ya tacky but is it a crime?
As far as the media and military killing civilians normally the military lets the news organization know. Sometimes they get ahold of a story. But normally those people are prosecuted. Not every case is caught right away. But the military does do a good job on catching most criminals. If not we would not have Leavenworth prison. I will say this I would much rather stay in a military prison then a civilian one.
eber322
Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan
Subject: Re: Killing civilians for fun, US style. Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:18 pm
The way they were making the prisoners strip naked and lay in piles, sicking dogs on naked prisoners, beat them while tied up, etc was considered torture and war crimes per international law. Here's a link to a google image search, you can see what they were doing was pretty bad in some instances.
