Homosexuals in Scouting

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

I'm sorry about your past. However most gays aren't pedophiles or rapists. I doubt the percentage is any higher in the gay community that in the straight community. I actually read a report some time ago that said that most men who molest young boys actually identify as heterosexual in their adult relationships, and that rape is mostly about power.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

I'm sorry to hear about all that POV. Doesn't surprise me though since most gays are pedophiles. Three percent of the population are responsible for thirty three percent of the child molestations each year.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

eber322 wrote:: Actually all he knows is how to cherry pick quotes off the internet without understanding them, their context, or even if they are real.

No, all it proves is that it's you who cherry-pick that good book of yours in an attempt to believe in the god of your choosing. The way you cherry-pick Leviticus in an attempt to justify you hatred of gays. Or the way you take from Genesis only what you want. It's either divine scripture or it's not.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

eber322 wrote:: I'm sorry to hear about all that POV. Doesn't surprise me though since most gays are pedophiles. Three percent of the population are responsible for thirty three percent of the child molestations each year.

Untrue.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

ilaugh wrote:: No, all it proves is that it's you who cherry-pick that good book of yours in an attempt to believe in the god of your choosing. The way you cherry-pick Leviticus in an attempt to justify you hatred of gays. Or the way you take from Genesis only what you want. It's either divine scripture or it's not.

No I read each entire book of the Bible in context, unlike you who pulls bits out of context off the web to suit your own ends. It's all divine scripture, I never said it wasn't. I take from Genesis only what I want? You mean the whole thing? What now, some last ditch effort from some website trying to discredit the Bible? Genesis huh, what the old false claim of two different creation stories? Maybe some nonsense claims about the Earths age? Or are you really going to try and discredit Gods creation based on "Darwinism"? Lol! You have no argument, your internet Christian hate sites have failed you as they always do and always will. I don't hate gays, I pray for them. I'm not out to destroy gays, gays are out to destroy Christians, just like most liberals are, and the Muslims, and atheists, etc.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

ilaugh wrote:

eber322 wrote:: I'm sorry to hear about all that POV. Doesn't surprise me though since most gays are pedophiles. Three percent of the population are responsible for thirty three percent of the child molestations each year.

Untrue.

Completely true.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

eber322 wrote:

ilaugh wrote:: No, all it proves is that it's you who cherry-pick that good book of yours in an attempt to believe in the god of your choosing. The way you cherry-pick Leviticus in an attempt to justify you hatred of gays. Or the way you take from Genesis only what you want. It's either divine scripture or it's not.

It's all divine scripture, I never said it wasn't. I take from Genesis only what I want? You mean the whole thing? What now, some last ditch effort from some website trying to discredit the Bible? Genesis huh, what they old false claim of two different creation stories? Or are you really going to try and discredit Gods creation based on "Darwinism"? Lol! You have no argument, your internet Christian hate sites have failed you as they always do and always will. I don't hate gays, I pray for them. I'm not out to destroy gays, gays are out to destroy Christians, just like most liberals are, and the Muslims, and atheists, etc.

I can feel the rage coming off you from here. Here's more of your gods view on slavery from Genesis. Clearly he's just fine with it.

Genesis 9:25-27
And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Now we can have that talk about how biblical creationism is false somewhere else, but I gotta tell ya there is absolutely no evidence to support all that biblical woo.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

eber322 wrote:

ilaugh wrote:

eber322 wrote:: I'm sorry to hear about all that POV. Doesn't surprise me though since most gays are pedophiles. Three percent of the population are responsible for thirty three percent of the child molestations each year.

Untrue.

Completely true.

definitively untrue.

Quote :: Reflecting the results of these and other studies, as well as clinical experience, the mainstream view among researchers and professionals who work in the area of child sexual abuse is that homosexual and bisexual men do not pose any special threat to children. For example, in one review of the scientific literature, noted authority Dr. A. Nicholas Groth wrote:
Are homosexual adults in general sexually attracted to children and are preadolescent children at greater risk of molestation from homosexual adults than from heterosexual adults? There is no reason to believe so. The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual (Groth & Gary, 1982, p. 147).
The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children. This is not to argue that homosexual and bisexual men never molest children. But there is no scientific basis for asserting that they are more likely than heterosexual men to do so. And, as explained above, many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

ilaugh wrote:: Well i didn't come about my way of thinking by not thinking at all. Not that I'm saying my way is superior, it's just mine.

Word

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

Rage? Lol, I'm laughing myself hoarse at you feeble attempts to bait me. Yet another reason I enjoy debating people with no knowledge of the Bible. When their foolish comments, misunderstood quotes, and out of context quotes fail. They assume I am somehow enraged by their joke attempts at Biblical debate.

Oh and just so you actually learn something, Canaan was punished by Noah, not God. This is telling us what happened when Ham found his father drunk and passed out naked. He made fun of Noah to his brothers and this pizzed Noah off when he found out. So Noah, not God, said Canaan (Ham's son) would be cursed and be a servant to other family members.

Not every thing in the Bible is what God said or did. Much of it is history, what other people said or did, etc. There is even one story where we hear about a dream a person had. So, this has nothing to do with Gods view on anything, it's simply a story of what happened to Noah and how he reacted.

You were really off the mark with this quote. Wasn't about Gods views and it wasn't about slavery. Keeping trying though, lol, there are other actual slavery comments in the Bible.

Much to late to keep laughing at you tonight. Here's an idea go read the Bible instead of just looking for quotes to support what you THINK it says online. You'll probably learn a lot, and if you don't understand something I'd be glad to help.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Colossians 4:1: "Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven."

So your god views his creation as property?

eber322 wrote:: Also, the slavery you are referring to isn't slavery as we know it today. It is more like indentured servitude. It is not capturing other people and making them slaves, it is people who can't pay their debts or feed their families selling themselves and their family members into servitude. In exchange for work, they get food, clothing and their debts discharged.

One could absolutely capture their slaves through warfare as long as they weren't Israelites, and only male Israelite slaves were offered freedom,unless he took the wife. Foreign slaves as well as their children were regarded as property. Oh ya and slavery lite :lol!:

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: At any rate the Scouts banning gays was really no big deal. They are private organization and can do what they feel. Them letting kids join that are gay is not big deal either.

You could not be more wrong POV. Here's a good example of your "no big deal".

Scouts

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

eber322 wrote:: Not every thing in the Bible is what God said or did. Much of it is history, what other people said or did, etc. There is even one story where we hear about a dream a person had. So, this has nothing to do with Gods view on anything, it's simply a story of what happened to Noah and how he reacted.

So it's not divine Scripture. The stories of the bible are just that, stories. Good to know. ;)

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

Peeps,

First off, all Christianity gave the scouting programs, was a foundation of right from wrong. As both founders were in fact Christians, they used those principals for their core values.

Both programs stress there is no place in them for religious debate. Religious issues are to be addressed by the parents and/or religious Leader of said scouts. In becoming a scout, it means you accept their core values and will obey them, so help you (deity of choice).

Both GSUSA and BSA died in the late 80's. They became political movements. GSUSA became the flagship of feminism, while BSA became the flagship of chauvinism. As parents, we fought them because we believed there was no place in scouting for political interest groups, but lost.

As predicted, that loss cost both programs much. The ranks of members dropped by half, as did donations and support. This caused the now movements to rethink themselves, just to continue to exist.

Well the first sacrifice, was their core values. Not an opinion mind you, but a fact. What values do they still honor now?

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

While this debate is very interesting please keep it civil. I want this place to be a place where we can agree to disagree.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Bandit wrote:: Well the first sacrifice, was their core values. Not an opinion mind you, but a fact. What values do they still honor now?

What I'm saying is that I don't believe that being anti-homosexual is a Christian value. In fact I could prove it's not across all denominations of modern Christianity. Now I know the argument that my Christianity is the right one and yours is wrong will ultimately rear its ugly head, and I've heard conservative Christians claim that the more liberal denomination are actually hurting the cause, but even the modern American fundamentalist rarely argues and certainly doesn't live entirely within the word of the bible. Certainly not the way radical fundamentalist Muslims adhere to their own text, and I'm glad that they don't for obvious reasons, but while the modern fundamentalist Christian is quick to judge a gay as being immoral most of them will fall short of calling for an execution, and that's true across the board for the most part. They'll rarely argue for the morality of slavery, and when they try it's usually fleeting, and often even humorous. Not only are things like divorce acceptable and recognized in most sects of Christianity, but even in the most fundamental denominations do you hear people calling for stoning to death the offender of adultery. The morals of modern first world nations are changing, and we've decided to stop discriminating against gays. I would argue that there better, higher morals than those of yesterday.

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

ilaugh wrote:

Bandit wrote:: Well the first sacrifice, was their core values. Not an opinion mind you, but a fact. What values do they still honor now?

The morals of modern first world nations are changing, and we've decided to stop discriminating against gays. I would argue that there better, higher morals than those of yesterday.

I would argue that nobody is changing their morals, in that homosexuality is still viewed as immoral a behavior as it ever was (You might have noted that homosexual adults are still not allowed).

History shows that when you force people to compromise their value system, no good comes of it.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Bandit wrote:: I would argue that nobody is changing their morals, in that homosexuality is still viewed as immoral a behavior as it ever was (You might have noted that homosexual adults are still not allowed).

Just exactly how so Bandit? We already have changed our morals from what was morally acceptable even 200 years ago let alone 2000. Are you suggesting we share the same moral beliefs today as the people of the bible? Because I know for fact that I have higher moral standards than anyone depicted in that book, including Jesus or the God envisioned in the story. You don't have to agree with Society as its moral codes advance, but don't expect it to stop for you.

Bandit wrote:: History shows that when you force people to compromise their value system, no good comes of it.

Nobody is forcing anyone, you're still free to disprove of homosexuality even if you may have to legally tolerate it.

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

ilaugh wrote:: Just exactly how so Bandit? We already have changed our morals from what was morally acceptable even 200 years ago let alone 2000. Are you suggesting we share the same moral beliefs today as the people of the bible? Because I know for fact that I have higher moral standards than anyone depicted in that book, including Jesus or the God envisioned in the story. You don't have to agree with Society as its moral codes advance, but don't expect it to stop for you.

I worship no deities, follow no religion nor do I let society assign morals and values for me. As such, the only way to change my moral standards, is for me to do so. And I know for a fact I'm not the only person around that thinks for themselves.

ilaugh wrote:: Nobody is forcing anyone, you're still free to disprove of homosexuality even if you may have to legally tolerate it.

In making it a legality issue, that amounts to force.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Bandit wrote:: I worship no deities, follow no religion nor do I let society assign morals and values for me. As such, the only way to change my moral standards, is for me to do so. And I know for a fact I'm not the only person around that thinks for themselves.

So your morals are your own, as are mine. I except that to a point. Still though, morals are largely a societal construct that we at least base our values and opinions on. We live with a higher moral code than people of the bronze age largely because generations of time and experience along with the society we were born into have led us to believe that certain things are morally reprehensible, like owning another human being, or stoning someone to death for being gay or an adulterer. Owning slaves wasn't morally correct back then, they just didn't know any better, and their laws and religion reflect that. You can look at the way my generation views homosexuality compared to that of my children and see a world of difference. The younger generation is much more approving, and I'd be willing to bet that their children will be even more so. So there's a paradigm shift happening, at least in the richer, freer nations. One that doesn't see homosexuality as being perverse, immoral, or even a psychological disorder. Now people can fight this, and they are, but they're going to loose, and are loosing by larger degrees every day. Because allowing this group of people more freedom and better choices is the morally responsible thing to do.

Bandit wrote:: In making it a legality issue, that amounts to force.

I tend to disagree, at least here. Look at gay marriage for instance. Nobody's being forced to get gay married, or even like the fact that gays can marry. I don't believe that any church will be forced to marry gay couples as long as they claim that it's against their religious beliefs, just like I'd have a hard time finding a Catholic Church to marry me to my bride without converting first. If you don't like the scouts decision then don't participate or fund them. The choice is yours.

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

ilaugh wrote:: So your morals are your own, as are mine. I except that to a point. Still though, morals are largely a societal construct that we at least base our values and opinions on. We live with a higher moral code than people of the bronze age largely because generations of time and experience along with the society we were born into have led us to believe that certain things are morally reprehensible, like owning another human being, or stoning someone to death for being gay or an adulterer. Owning slaves wasn't morally correct back then, they just didn't know any better, and their laws and religion reflect that. You can look at the way my generation views homosexuality compared to that of my children and see a world of difference. The younger generation is much more approving, and I'd be willing to bet that their children will be even more so. So there's a paradigm shift happening, at least in the richer, freer nations. One that doesn't see homosexuality as being perverse, immoral, or even a psychological disorder. Now people can fight this, and they are, but they're going to loose, and are loosing by larger degrees every day. Because allowing this group of people more freedom and better choices is the morally responsible thing to do.

We have what is considered to be the most morally corrupt society on the planet. And there are decades of sociological research to back that claim up. The paradigm shift, is as our youth turn into adults, it's getting worse faster with each generation. The youth today are lazy, coddled, narcissistic and in many cases downright delusional. Compare that with the generation getting ready to retire (65 years old). The fact you generally do not oppose something, does not mean you accept it.

ilaugh wrote:: I tend to disagree, at least here. Look at gay marriage for instance. Nobody's being forced to get gay married, or even like the fact that gays can marry. I don't believe that any church will be forced to marry gay couples as long as they claim that it's against their religious beliefs, just like I'd have a hard time finding a Catholic Church to marry me to my bride without converting first. If you don't like the scouts decision then don't participate or fund them. The choice is yours.

I counter with this. In states that allow gay marriages, they force the couple to accept the traditional title of groom/husband or bride/wife. Unless of course, said states have special homosexual licenses. In states that do not allow homosexual marriages, they still are forced to accept another states license as legal.

I do not support, fund or participate in the scouting movements, nor do my children. But that decision had nothing to do with this.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

ilaugh wrote:: ...I know for fact that I have higher moral standards than anyone depicted in that book, including Jesus or the God envisioned in the story.

So you think you're holier than God himself? Wow, I never realized till now that Obama posted here. You are delusional, get help. I'll pray you get the mental and spiritual help you need.

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Bandit wrote:: We have what is considered to be the most morally corrupt society on the planet. And there are decades of sociological research to back that claim up. The paradigm shift, is as our youth turn into adults, it's getting worse faster with each generation. The youth today are lazy, coddled, narcissistic and in many cases downright delusional. Compare that with the generation getting ready to retire (65 years old). The fact you generally do not oppose something, does not mean you accept it.

I'm sorry Bandit but that's not even close to being true. Every generation complains about how stupid and lazy the younger generation is and they are typically wrong. However one thing that can drive civilization backwards is fundamentalism.

Bandit wrote:: I counter with this. In states that allow gay marriages, they force the couple to accept the traditional title of groom/husband or bride/wife. Unless of course, said states have special homosexual licenses. In states that do not allow homosexual marriages, they still are forced to accept another states license as legal.

Well I imagine gay couples will take what they can for now. As time passes gay marriage will be as widely accepted as interracial marriage is today. Now you still can choose to dislike it, that's your choice, you can even claim that you're forced to accept it, I'll concede to that, but a little tolerance will probably ease the stress level.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

eber322 wrote:

ilaugh wrote:: ...I know for fact that I have higher moral standards than anyone depicted in that book, including Jesus or the God envisioned in the story.

So you think you're holier than God himself? Wow, I never realized till now that Obama posted here. You are delusional, get help. I'll pray you get the mental and spiritual help you need.

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

I do in fact believe that I have a higher moral character than that of the god portrayed in the bible. That cat obviously suffers from Megalomania. I mean the fist four commandments are all about him. Not to mention the atrocities he either committed or demanded his follower to commit.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

Quote :: I'm sorry Bandit but that's not even close to being true. Every generation complains about how stupid and lazy the younger generation is and they are typically wrong.

we go through young people like Sandra Fluke goes through men. In the last 4 years I have only had one young person last more then 2 weeks as my helper. Upstairs it is even worse. Not saying there are young people who do not work hard. But that is mostly ones the come from farms because the rest get everything handed to them.