Homosexuals in Scouting

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

Well it's official. Here's an interesting article:

Opinion

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

When a group ceases to uphold it's own moral standards it's ceases to exist.

RIP Boy Scouts of America.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

I imagine this will piss off quite a few people, bigotry dies hard.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

Bigotry isn't dying, it's winning. These homosexual bigots are forcing themselves and their views on everybody in society.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

eber322 wrote:: Bigotry isn't dying, it's winning. These homosexual bigots are forcing themselves and their views on everybody in society.

Bullpoo, they just want to live their lives without undue hardships from small-minded people who would like to treat them as second class citizens, and that means fighting for their rights. It's a civil rights movement; if society treated them as equals there would be no movement. You're certainly free to push back and display your ignorance and fear, but you're going to loose this battle.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

First and foremost it is not a civil rights issue. You cannot name one right that homosexuals have that I do not.

No having said that has anything really changed in the Boy Scouts? Homosexuals Boy Scouts were never really banned. The only thing was is they could come out and say I am gay. I know that many gay people have served in the Scouts. Nothing has really changed.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Gay rights is absolutely a civil rights issue. Openly gay people can now serve in the military. They can also get married in several states, and more are added all the time. Now the federal government needs to recognize marriage between same sex couples as well. While the boy scout case may not be as much a civil rights issue it does reflect a positive movement in society to accept people for who they are.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: Homosexuals Boy Scouts were never really banned. The only thing was is they could come out and say I am gay.

How is that not a ban?

Quote :: On May 23, 2013, The Boy Scouts of America's national governing body voted to rescind the long-standing ban on homosexual youth in the program. Effective January 1, 2014, "No youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone."

Prior to this, the Boy Scouts of America's official position was to "not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals" as Scouts or adult Scout Leaders in its traditional Scouting programs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies#Position_on_homosexuality

This doesn't mean they are going to teach homosexuality, or encourage sexual relationships of any kind. It just means they wont kick some kid out if his sexual identity becomes known.

Now if they'll just allow atheists and agnostics they could really make a move into the 21st century.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

I was in military and you had to be really stupid to get kicked out for being gay. You really did. You cannot serve in the military as an open heterosexual. While you are in uniform no public display of affection. I knew many of gay people in the military that served honorably many that retired.

Marriage. You do not need to get married to have all the same rights. You can make a living will of what to do if you go into the hospital. You can make a will of what to do with your effects. You can make your gay partner in case you are in a coma to do your bidding by giving them power of attorney. Yes harder but the same rights.

Boy Scouts while you could not go around in the Boy Scouts screaming I am gay I am gay. You could be in the Boy Scouts. You just could not tell them your sexual orientation. Why would you any way even if you are straight.

I have no problems with atheist or agnostics. As long as they respect my beliefs I will respect theirs.

Oh one more thing on the Boy Scouts. What if they start trying to convert gays and make them straight.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: I was in military and you had to be really stupid to get kicked out for being gay. You really did. You cannot serve in the military as an open heterosexual. While you are in uniform no public display of affection. I knew many of gay people in the military that served honorably many that retired.

That's not the point. The point is now you can't be discharged for being gay, the point is people in that position don't have to hide who they are, they don't have to remain in the closet for fear of loosing their job and future military pension.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: Marriage. You do not need to get married to have all the same rights. You can make a living will of what to do if you go into the hospital. You can make a will of what to do with your effects. You can make your gay partner in case you are in a coma to do your bidding by giving them power of attorney. Yes harder but the same rights.

That's not the point either. One can make a living will, but still be denied admittance to see a loved one when they're in ICU for instance. And a will is not marriage. They also don't have the same tax benefits on the federal level as heterosexual married couples, even in states that recognize gay marriage.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: Boy Scouts while you could not go around in the Boy Scouts screaming I am gay I am gay. You could be in the Boy Scouts. You just could not tell them your sexual orientation. Why would you any way even if you are straight.

It was still basically a ban. Once again It's not asking the Boy Scouts to have a gay parade, it's just about allowing known homosexuals to participate.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: Oh one more thing on the Boy Scouts. What if they start trying to convert gays and make them straight.

Then they should be completely cut off from any federal funding or tax exempt status.

Subject: Re: Homosexuals in Scouting Fri May 24, 2013 8:32 pm

The thing that everyone is forgetting is that the scouts are a PRIVATE organization.
They have the right to allow or deny membership to anyone on any grounds whatsoever. (or in a just society, they would.)

Just as you or I have the right to join them or not.

Their management has chosen to betray one of the core values that they have claimed to stand for; proper moral behavior. My choice would be to end any and all ties with them and seek an organization who more accurately reflects my own values.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

"proper moral behavior"

Well, if they're going to discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation or their lack of belief in a certain god, I would argue that they have chosen to take the moral low road.

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

Interesting comments. May I ask if any of you have any experience in scouting, and if so, what? Also, do any of you have children.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

ilaugh wrote:: Bullpoo, they just want to live their lives without undue hardships from small-minded people who would like to treat them as second class citizens, and that means fighting for their rights. It's a civil rights movement; if society treated them as equals there would be no movement. You're certainly free to push back and display your ignorance and fear, but you're going to loose this battle.

It's not a civil rights movement because they were never denied any rights. Unlike blacks or women who at one time couldn't vote, gays have always had the same rights as everybody else. And they don't want to just live their lives they want to force their views on everybody else. That's why they force these issues, instead of finding or starting a church of their own, they attack Christian churches and demand that they change their beliefs to include accepting homosexual behavior despite that going against the church itself. Same thing with the Boy Scouts, they hate the Scouts because the Scouts follow Christian teachings. If they don't believe in Christianity or God, why do they want into these groups? Simple, so they can destroy them.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

eber322 wrote:

ilaugh wrote:: Bullpoo, they just want to live their lives without undue hardships from small-minded people who would like to treat them as second class citizens, and that means fighting for their rights. It's a civil rights movement; if society treated them as equals there would be no movement. You're certainly free to push back and display your ignorance and fear, but you're going to loose this battle.

It's not a civil rights movement because they were never denied any rights. Unlike blacks or women who at one time couldn't vote, gays have always had the same rights as everybody else. And they don't want to just live their lives they want to force their views on everybody else. That's why they force these issues, instead of finding or starting a church of their own, they attack Christian churches and demand that they change their beliefs to include accepting homosexual behavior despite that going against the church itself. Same thing with the Boy Scouts, they hate the Scouts because the Scouts follow Christian teachings. If they don't believe in Christianity or God, why do they want into these groups? Simple, so they can destroy them.

You honestly believe that gays aren't discriminated against or that they share all the same rights that you have. :roll:

There are plenty of gay Christians, and they're not trying to destroy anything. Just because some Christians want to follow a broken paradigm doesn't make them just. I don't see any Christians fighting to reinstate slavery, what happened to that God? Why do some people feel that they can cherry-pick that book to satisfy their own bigotry? The Gays don't hate you, you hate them.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Bandit wrote:: Interesting comments. May I ask if any of you have any experience in scouting, and if so, what? Also, do any of you have children.

I was a scout when I was young, but quit about the time I hit puberty, I'm not gay by the way.

I've two children, both at uni. Which is why all I can afford to do is argue with you. ;)

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

ilaugh wrote:: You honestly believe that gays aren't discriminated against or that they share all the same rights that you have.

Yes, because you can't name one right that I have that they don't. Because there isn't one.

ilaugh wrote:: There are plenty of gay Christians, and they're not trying to destroy anything. Just because some Christians want to follow a broken paradigm doesn't make them just. I don't see any Christians fighting to reinstate slavery, what happened to that God? Why do some people feel that they can cherry-pick that book to satisfy their own bigotry? The Gays don't hate you, you hate them.

You can't be a non-repentant gay and still be a Christian. Anymore than you can be a non-repentant adulterer, murderer, etc and be a Christian. Yes many people with all kinds of sins claim to be Christians, but they are not if they purposely live a life of sin. As far as slavery, wow you really are off the mark. I love it when ignorant people who don't know the bible try use it to make their arguments. God was never in favor of slavery...

Exodus 21:16: "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death."

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

The bible not only supports slavery, it sets up the rules.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Tell me, do you follow all the laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy? Or just the ones that fit your Christianity.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

ilaugh wrote:

Bandit wrote:: Interesting comments. May I ask if any of you have any experience in scouting, and if so, what? Also, do any of you have children.

I was a scout when I was young, but quit about the time I hit puberty, I'm not gay by the way.

I've two children, both at uni. Which is why all I can afford to do is argue with you. ;)

Oh I enjoy the debate. One thing about this place is we can debate but still get along.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

At any rate the Scouts banning gays was really no big deal. They are private organization and can do what they feel. Them letting kids join that are gay is not big deal either.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner--those who are not your offspring.

Genesis 17:12

Your God clearly approves of slavery.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

ilaugh wrote:: For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner--those who are not your offspring.

Genesis 17:12

Your God clearly approves of slavery.

If your an atheist you sure do know a lot about the bible.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: At any rate the Scouts banning gays was really no big deal. They are private organization and can do what they feel. Them letting kids join that are gay is not big deal either.

I suppose, still think it's a step in the right direction. Hating or discriminating against a group for something that has no affect on you is just a waste of energy.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

ilaugh wrote:: For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner--those who are not your offspring.

Genesis 17:12

Your God clearly approves of slavery.

If your an atheist you sure do know a lot about the bible.

Well i didn't come about my way of thinking by not thinking at all. Not that I'm saying my way is superior, it's just mine.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

ilaugh wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: At any rate the Scouts banning gays was really no big deal. They are private organization and can do what they feel. Them letting kids join that are gay is not big deal either.

I suppose, still think it's a step in the right direction. Hating or discriminating against a group for something that has no effect on you is just a waste of energy.

Oh it has effected me in a big way. I had to leave this board for a very long time because some gay guy contacted my young son over facebook. Also I was almost raped by a gay guy. I had a mess cook in the Navy raped by two gay guys. One is in jail the other got away with it. I was actually molested by a gay guy when I was 8 that is why my father moved across the country. I swore and until this day if I ever see that SOB again I will kick his ass.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

Again, you display your ignorance. The Bible didn't set up slavery, it's rules were to make sure slaves were treated fairly.

Colossians 4:1: "Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven."

Also, the slavery you are referring to isn't slavery as we know it today. It is more like indentured servitude. It is not capturing other people and making them slaves, it is people who can't pay their debts or feed their families selling themselves and their family members into servitude. In exchange for work, they get food, clothing and their debts discharged.

ilaugh wrote:: Tell me, do you follow all the laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy? Or just the ones that fit your Christianity.

Well, you unintentionally phrased that pretty well. You see, many of those rules don't apply to Christianity and never did. Many of those rules specifically applied to Jews, or even Jews in certain locations. Others were specifically changed by Christ. But yes, I do follow all the rules that apply to Christianity. (Or at least I try my best and repent when mess up). I am a Christian after all, I'm not going to follow rules that Christ changed or that only ever applied to the Jews.

ilaugh wrote:: For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner--those who are not your offspring.

Genesis 17:12

Your God clearly approves of slavery.

No, that proves He approves of circumcision.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: If your an atheist you sure do know a lot about the bible.

Actually all he knows is how to cherry pick quotes off the internet without understanding them, their context, or even if they are real.

For example, his talk of Leviticus and Deuteronomy is a popular one for gays and gay supporters. But they know not of what they speak. They will often cite the unclean foods that were forbidden in the OT without knowing that Christ cleansed all animals for consumption in the NT. They will site rules of behavior out of context not realizing those rules only applied to Jews living in Jerusalem, meaning they never applied to Christians. They will claim people are forbidden to cut their hair, not understanding that they are taking that out of context. And that it actually only applies to being forbidden to practice a pagan form of mourning in which pagans shaved parts of their heads and even cut pieces from their scalps. And on and on, but it's nothing new, the atheists do the same thing with different Bible quotes.