Five days to Obamacare.

Woooooooooooo whoooooooooooooo Five days until the greatest program ever invented by government starts. I bet you are all excited about it and cannot wait to get it

eber322 wrote:

ROFLLMAO. Great one.

Doesn't effect me or anyone I know.

ITTTTTTTTTTTTT here.

Yep, it's law now, and it's funding doesn't rely on appropriations from Congress.

ilaugh wrote:

Yep, it's law now, and it's funding doesn't rely on appropriations from Congress.  

Nope so why all the fuss? Why not just pass the individual bills and Obamacare goes on. But still leaves 30 million Americans uninsured.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

ilaugh wrote:

Yep, it's law now, and it's funding doesn't rely on appropriations from Congress.  

Nope so why all the fuss? Why not just pass the individual bills and Obamacare goes on. But still leaves 30 million Americans uninsured.

That's a good question. Why shut down the government in an attempt to prolong the effective date of a law unless the House Republicans feel that they can use it as a fulcrum for political gain next time the deadline rolls around again, or continue to prolong the effective date hoping to garner enough power in Washington to gut the program. Either way, the Republicans are playing a dangerous game by kowtowing to a hardline minority within their own party. If republicans think that independent voter will be more likely to blame the Democrats for this shut down they've got another thing coming i.e. reality.

ilaugh wrote:

Yep, it's law now, and it's funding doesn't rely on appropriations from Congress.

Take a look at the Constitution. Congress does indeed control the purse strings. And it has defunded other programs.

For example, it defunded the enforcement of laws passed that banned incandescent light bulbs. I also seem to recall defunding enforcement of something to do with illegal immigration as well.

Implementing Obamacare, day one....

Annoyed wrote:

ilaugh wrote:

Yep, it's law now, and it's funding doesn't rely on appropriations from Congress.  

Take a look at the Constitution. Congress does indeed control the purse strings. And it has defunded other programs.

For example, it defunded the enforcement of laws passed that banned incandescent light bulbs. I also seem to recall defunding enforcement of something to do with illegal immigration as well.

Perhaps I should have been more clear. Shutting down the government won't defund it.

ilaugh wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

ilaugh wrote:

Yep, it's law now, and it's funding doesn't rely on appropriations from Congress.  

Nope so why all the fuss? Why not just pass the individual bills and Obamacare goes on. But still leaves 30 million Americans uninsured.

That's a good question. Why shut down the government in an attempt to prolong the effective date of a law unless the House Republicans feel that they can use it as a fulcrum for political gain next time the deadline rolls around again, or continue to prolong the effective date hoping to garner enough power in Washington to gut the program. Either way, the Republicans are playing a dangerous game by kowtowing to a hardline minority within their own party. If republicans think that independent voter will be more likely to blame the Democrats for this shut down they've got another thing coming i.e. reality.

Maybe I did not explain myself. If it does not matter if congress funds it or not. If it is paid then why is Obama saying I will not sign individual bills? If it does not matter then why is Obama shutting it down? No reason to. Win win for everyone. Republicans look strong and Obama looks strong.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

ilaugh wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

ilaugh wrote:

Yep, it's law now, and it's funding doesn't rely on appropriations from Congress.  

Nope so why all the fuss? Why not just pass the individual bills and Obamacare goes on. But still leaves 30 million Americans uninsured.

That's a good question. Why shut down the government in an attempt to prolong the effective date of a law unless the House Republicans feel that they can use it as a fulcrum for political gain next time the deadline rolls around again, or continue to prolong the effective date hoping to garner enough power in Washington to gut the program. Either way, the Republicans are playing a dangerous game by kowtowing to a hardline minority within their own party. If republicans think that independent voter will be more likely to blame the Democrats for this shut down they've got another thing coming i.e. reality.

Maybe I did not explain myself. If it does not matter if congress funds it or not. If it is paid then why is Obama saying I will not sign individual bills? If it does not matter then why is Obama shutting it down? No reason to. Win win for everyone. Republicans look strong and Obama looks strong.

What is Obama shutting down? The House Republicans shut it down. Obama just isn't going to allow everything to be funded piecemeal and why should he, he didn't shut it down. The Senate needs to pass a clean CR and then they can work on the ACA.

ilaugh wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

ilaugh wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

ilaugh wrote:

Yep, it's law now, and it's funding doesn't rely on appropriations from Congress.  

Nope so why all the fuss? Why not just pass the individual bills and Obamacare goes on. But still leaves 30 million Americans uninsured.

That's a good question. Why shut down the government in an attempt to prolong the effective date of a law unless the House Republicans feel that they can use it as a fulcrum for political gain next time the deadline rolls around again, or continue to prolong the effective date hoping to garner enough power in Washington to gut the program. Either way, the Republicans are playing a dangerous game by kowtowing to a hardline minority within their own party. If republicans think that independent voter will be more likely to blame the Democrats for this shut down they've got another thing coming i.e. reality.

Maybe I did not explain myself. If it does not matter if congress funds it or not. If it is paid then why is Obama saying I will not sign individual bills? If it does not matter then why is Obama shutting it down? No reason to. Win win for everyone. Republicans look strong and Obama looks strong.

What is Obama shutting down? The House Republicans shut it down. Obama just isn't going to allow everything to be funded piecemeal and why should he, he didn't shut it down. The Senate needs to pass a clean CR and then they can work on the ACA.

Really the House republicans did? How you figure that? Obama is the one that said I will not negotiate. Then proceeded to use extreme rhetoric with Harry Reid using terms like Terrorist Anarchist Extortionist. What does the name calling do? How does that solve anything? Harry goes out and says we cannot let the republicans slap us around. How do you even talk to to people like that. The only thing the House is asking for now is that everyone gets treated the same. No exemptions for Big Business and congressional aids. Or delay Obamacare for a year for everyone. All reasonable request. But when you have a person in the White House using extreme language it hard to deal with them.

As far as passing a clear CR and then work on it. No one trusts Obama or the democrats to keep their word they will work on it after a clean CR. Why should they work with republicans then? They get what they want and they have shown they are unwilling to work with anyone. Republicans have begged for weeks to work something out. Obama and Harry said NO.

He said that he would not negotiate with repealing or defunding the ACA or an attempt to delay so that they can fight it another day with the same hostage taking tactics and blackmailing attempts that the House Republicans have been using for years now. Everything else he has been more that willing to negotiate on. The House Republicans shut the government down in an attempt to fight a LAW they don't like. That's how almost everyone sees it who isn't a card carrying member of the Republican Party. Ask any independent voter which party is more responsible for the shutdown, and after you ask them that, ask them which party is most responsible for America loosing it's AAA credit rating.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

As far as passing a clear CR and then work on it. No one trusts Obama or the democrats to keep their word they will work on it after a clean CR. Why should they work with republicans then? They get what they want and they have shown they are unwilling to work with anyone. Republicans have begged for weeks to work something out. Obama and Harry said NO.

Yep, Obama has refused to sign anything and everything unless Congress gives him exactly what he wants. Unless they just submit every bill exactly how he wants it for a rubber stamp, he is going to refuse to sign it. It's what he's always been doing, trying to dictate his will then bitching when Congress doesn't go along. Now like a spoiled brat he is saying; "Fine you can't play with my ball until you agree to play by my rules."

And then he gets on tv and tells America that Congress isn't doing its job. When in reality, he's refusing to let them do their job.

eber322 wrote:

Yep, Obama has refused to sign anything and everything unless Congress gives him exactly what he wants.

That's so incredibly untrue and little more than a right wing talking point.

iLaugh, the simple fact is that Obamacare is totally unacceptable to large parts of the population, for many reasons. We've already seen numerous examples of "promises in the dark"* that have been broken regarding this, such as "If you like your current insurance or current Doctor, you can keep it", and "Obamacare would reduce health insurance premiums by "3,000 percent".

Regarding that whopper, an exhaustive study by three congressional committees found that "Obamacare “could increase health insurance premiums by over 200 percent and render insurance coverage unaffordable for millions of Americans.”

Meyers further noted that “studies and analyses from the Congressional Budget Office, independent actuaries, state insurance commissioners, health plans, benefit consultants, and others have reached the same conclusion.”

I'll just leave you with those two lies for now..

In any case, a large part of the population despises this new nightmare, and the Republicans who are insistent upon dismantling it are representing the views of those people.

Since I make my living by the sweat of my own brow, rather than the government & the taxes of others, I'm perfectly fine with the current situation. I hope the Republicans stick to their guns, no matter how long it takes.

*Reference to 1980's era song.

ilaugh wrote:

He said that he would not negotiate with repealing or defunding the ACA or an attempt to delay so that they can fight it another day with the same hostage taking tactics and blackmailing attempts that the House Republicans have been using for years now. Everything else he has been more that willing to negotiate on. The House Republicans shut the government down in an attempt to fight a LAW they don't like. That's how almost everyone sees it who isn't a card carrying member of the Republican Party. Ask any independent voter which party is more responsible for the shutdown, and after you ask them that, ask them which party is most responsible for America loosing it's AAA credit rating.      

Since you asked, I find both parties equally responsible. And regardless what you think, I am not a member of the Republican party. We don't think along party lines. That's the whole point to being an independent voter. We're not paying attention to the party vs party bickering. We're looking at all the damage 533 people have caused. I believe most people are, regardless of party affiliation.

As an example, in my state alone, over 100,000 people are out of work. Usually, the state deals with 100 or less out of work federal employees a month. From there, it really gets ugly. Half of those actually work for the state, but are paid with federal funds. What did we lose?

Dept of Health and Human Services
Dept of Agriculture
Dept of Public Safety
Dept of Commerce
Dept of Environment and Natural Resources

So no, ilaugh. We're looking at 533 people as individuals, and what they had to do with this mess. For me, it's the Senators and Representatives from my state. They were part of the solution, or part of the problem. If the latter, come the next election, they'll be looking for new job.

This didn't effect me, but did many of my friends. My friends favor both parties, or are Indy like myself. But it didn't matter. Still out of work. They aren't bickering over what party is responsible. 533 people are responsible, whether they admit it, or not.

ilaugh wrote:

He said that he would not negotiate with repealing or defunding the ACA or an attempt to delay so that they can fight it another day with the same hostage taking tactics and blackmailing attempts that the House Republicans have been using for years now. Everything else he has been more that willing to negotiate on. The House Republicans shut the government down in an attempt to fight a LAW they don't like. That's how almost everyone sees it who isn't a card carrying member of the Republican Party. Ask any independent voter which party is more responsible for the shutdown, and after you ask them that, ask them which party is most responsible for America loosing it's AAA credit rating.      

I just wonder how do you talk to someone that says hostage takers anarchist who use extreme rhetoric like that? How can anyone talk to Barry or Harry if they us inflammatory language like that? The republicans have sent 4 bills to the senate. The last bill was far more reasonable. The house only sent one bill defunding ACA. The rest of the bills were reasonable. But how do you negotiate with an unreasonable person like Barry or Harry? I mean really using language like hostage takers is going to solve anything? It sounds like twelve year old's talking not adults.

Bandit wrote:

ilaugh wrote:

He said that he would not negotiate with repealing or defunding the ACA or an attempt to delay so that they can fight it another day with the same hostage taking tactics and blackmailing attempts that the House Republicans have been using for years now. Everything else he has been more that willing to negotiate on. The House Republicans shut the government down in an attempt to fight a LAW they don't like. That's how almost everyone sees it who isn't a card carrying member of the Republican Party. Ask any independent voter which party is more responsible for the shutdown, and after you ask them that, ask them which party is most responsible for America loosing it's AAA credit rating.      

Since you asked, I find both parties equally responsible. And regardless what you think, I am not a member of the Republican party. We don't think along party lines. That's the whole point to being an independent voter. We're not paying attention to the party vs party bickering. We're looking at all the damage 533 people have caused. I believe most people are, regardless of party affiliation.

As an example, in my state alone, over 100,000 people are out of work. Usually, the state deals with 100 or less out of work federal employees a month. From there, it really gets ugly. Half of those actually work for the state, but are paid with federal funds. What did we lose?

Dept of Health and Human Services
Dept of Agriculture
Dept of Public Safety
Dept of Commerce
Dept of Environment and Natural Resources

So no, ilaugh. We're looking at 533 people as individuals, and what they had to do with this mess. For me, it's the Senators and Representatives  from my state. They were part of the solution, or part of the problem. If the latter, come the next election, they'll be looking for  new job.

This didn't effect me, but did many of my friends. My friends favor both parties, or are Indy like myself. But it didn't matter. Still out of work. They aren't bickering over what party is responsible. 533 people are responsible, whether they admit it, or not.

It is time for both parties to sit down and hammer this out and stop with the rhetoric. It is time that both parties do what WE THE PEOPLE PAY THEM TO DO.

OMG they cannot be that dumb. Yes yes they can.

U.S. Budget

U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000

Federal Budget: $3,820,000,000,000

New Debt: $1,650,000,000,000

National Debt: $14,271,000,000,000

Recent budget cuts: $38,500,000,000

By removing 8 zeros we can put it in the prospective of a household budget.

Family Budget

Annual family income: $21,700

Money spent: $38,200

New credit debt: $16,500

Outstanding debt: $142,710

Budget cuts: $38.50

Yeah, it's all a joke. It should be illegal for the fed to budget more than the country makes.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

It sounds like twelve year old's talking not adults.

Imperious Leader has been governing like a 12 year old since he took office.

But lets just consider his current round or petulant behavior.

Take a look at the ways that he is deliberatly trying to inflict as much pain and inconvenience as possible, even to the extent of sending government employees to ensure that parks and such that are normally unstaffed are closed to the public. Hell, he's even trying to close an ocean!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/Feds-Try-to-Close-the-OCEAN-Because-of-Shutdown

Tell me, is that the behavior of an adult or that of spoiled child?