Tea Party betrayed?

With Romney looking more and more like the nominee, I can only wonder what has become of the Tea Party?
Where are their huge events? What happened to their network Fox News coverage?

It seems the business wing of the Republican Party has pretty much blanked the Tea Party wing during this Presidential nominating cycle. Oh, btw, as a person who lived on the border of Mass when Romney was governor, I can promise you (and this ain't one of those Romney promises) that Romney is going to be more liberal than Obama. The guy is not a conservative except that he wants lower taxes for business and less regulation. Outside of that, if elected, he will not just lean to the center, he will swerve off the road. The Left side of the road.

Well I will disagree and say Romney is not yet looking like the choice. And I'm not sure what your point is about the Tea Party but I fully expect them to take more seats for the next election. Conservatives and republicans are sick of the establishment republicans not doing what they promised.

ssvs04 wrote:

Well I will disagree and say Romney is not yet looking like the choice. And I'm not sure what your point is about the Tea Party but I fully expect them to take more seats for the next election. Conservatives and republicans are sick of the establishment republicans not doing what they promised.

Ah, yes. But the Tea Party was effectively shut down when Fox News decided to take them off the air.
While they may still take some more Congressional seats the establishment Republicans are now working hard to head them off.

I consider it a similiar situation to illegal immigration. The Republican party likes to use immigration to make political points when the election for President is not imminent. Because if you have noticed, Republican Presidents love illegal immigration. Or rather corporate America loves them and we know that Republican Presidents work for Corporate America.

From Reagans amnesty for illegal aliens to Bush's virtual moratorium on prosecuting companies found employing illegal immigrants, the record of Republican Presidents actually is one hugely pro illegal immigrants.
In fact, in one month under Obama more companies were indicted for hiring illegal aliens than in the entire 8 years of Bush.

Tea Party is not shut down and Fox hasnt taken them off the air. First the Tea Party is a political power house and has become more then just rallies. And we have the loons running around the cities now so the press goes with the most interesting stories of whats happening at the moment. When the elections start happening the Tea Party supporters will be out like they were for the last election.

The establishment Republican Party along with fake republican presidents like Bush doesnt like strong illegal immigration laws along with the democrats just as much. Corporate America is just as much republican as it is democrat. Obama might be putting on a good show to go after the illegals who commit more illegal acts when they come here. But he is doing nothing to close the borders to stop the traffic. Border towns are getting worse all the time with drug running and kidnappings. The entitlements for illegals is full steam ahead. If he could give amnesty tommorrow for all the illegals and a easy way to citizenship for new democrat voters he would.

ssvs04 wrote:

Tea Party is not shut down and Fox hasnt taken them off the air. First the Tea Party is a political power house and has become more then just rallies. And we have the loons running around the cities now so the press goes with the most interesting stories of whats happening at the moment. When the elections start happening the Tea Party supporters will be out like they were for the last election.

The establishment Republican Party along with fake republican presidents like Bush doesnt like strong illegal immigration laws along with the democrats just as much. Corporate America is just as much republican as it is democrat. Obama might be putting on a good show to go after the illegals who commit more illegal acts when they come here. But he is doing nothing to close the borders to stop the traffic. Border towns are getting worse all the time with drug running and kidnappings. The entitlements for illegals is full steam ahead. If he could give amnesty tommorrow for all the illegals and a easy way to citizenship for new democrat voters he would.

You mean like Reagan did?

madskillz wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

Tea Party is not shut down and Fox hasnt taken them off the air. First the Tea Party is a political power house and has become more then just rallies. And we have the loons running around the cities now so the press goes with the most interesting stories of whats happening at the moment. When the elections start happening the Tea Party supporters will be out like they were for the last election.

The establishment Republican Party along with fake republican presidents like Bush doesnt like strong illegal immigration laws along with the democrats just as much. Corporate America is just as much republican as it is democrat. Obama might be putting on a good show to go after the illegals who commit more illegal acts when they come here. But he is doing nothing to close the borders to stop the traffic. Border towns are getting worse all the time with drug running and kidnappings. The entitlements for illegals is full steam ahead. If he could give amnesty tommorrow for all the illegals and a easy way to citizenship for new democrat voters he would.

You mean like Reagan did?

Yes Reagan didnt listen to his own advice on trust but verify with that one. And made the mistake that if he went with there deal that the democrat controlled congress would keep to there word and secure the borders.

ssvs04 wrote:

madskillz wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

Tea Party is not shut down and Fox hasnt taken them off the air. First the Tea Party is a political power house and has become more then just rallies. And we have the loons running around the cities now so the press goes with the most interesting stories of whats happening at the moment. When the elections start happening the Tea Party supporters will be out like they were for the last election.

The establishment Republican Party along with fake republican presidents like Bush doesnt like strong illegal immigration laws along with the democrats just as much. Corporate America is just as much republican as it is democrat. Obama might be putting on a good show to go after the illegals who commit more illegal acts when they come here. But he is doing nothing to close the borders to stop the traffic. Border towns are getting worse all the time with drug running and kidnappings. The entitlements for illegals is full steam ahead. If he could give amnesty tommorrow for all the illegals and a easy way to citizenship for new democrat voters he would.

You mean like Reagan did?

Yes Reagan didnt listen to his own advice on trust but verify with that one. And made the mistake that if he went with there deal that the democrat controlled congress would keep to there word and secure the borders.

Here's the multi trillion dollar question.
Where are we going to get the trillions of dollars that would take? It costs the Germans and Soviets a fortune to try and isolate a small part of Berlin. To secure the border would mean, at the very least, hiring well over 200,000 border patrol agents. And that was from something I read about 5 years ago. I think it would be more like half a million.

Of course then we will have to hire another 300,000 to secure the Canadian border, since it is harder with all the trees and such.

No one has ever put forth any real plan to actually station enough agents at the border to do something about illegal immigration. Remember, you can seal up 95 percent of the border, and that won't stop illegal immigrants.
Realistically, figure out the lenghth of the border and figure out how much it would cost to have agents stationed, what, every couple of hundred feet. 24/7.

It would blow out our economy by bankrupting our country.

The only effective method is to eliminate the jobs they get here. Start by throwing a few hundred thousand Americans in jail who knowlingly hire illegals. Aww, who am I kidding, its probably millions. Most effective would be to actually punish large employers who knowlingly hire illegals. They are the real problem. Without the the underground system where illegals come here and work for say 6 months to a year to pay off their coyotes at large companies you could make a real dent in illegal immigration.

Your kidding about where we would get the money right? We have trillions in waste and unconstitional spending every year. Its a cake walk to get the money if we could get the politicians to put a pare between there legs. We have 190 bases around the world we dont need with trained soldiers. We could close those bases give a good portion of these soldiers a job right here as border agents. Between the man power we could have and our technology this could be done. I mean there are all kinds of things we could do easily to get started on a secure border besides excuses.

And yes get a whole lot stricter on businesses hiring illegals. But the border is no less important because its not just the illegals looking for a job. Its a very large group of people transporting guns and drugs. And the future location im betting for the next big terrorist attack on America.

Uh, so you are saying we should take over half the US budget and spend it on border security.

That completely proves my point. Half the entire budget on border security? Did you even think before you typed that? Half the budget? Seriously?

The entire US army is about 600 thousand. So basically you want to take use them all? Seriously, did you think when you typed that? Your goal is bring home every US soldier from every base and to turn the US Army into border agents?

Lastly, you snuck in the real flaw in your plan quite subtly. Congrats. Reading carefully I notice you are really concerned with just getting started. That reminds of Bushes lets just get started and build a fence. And we know that was just a huge giveaway to a defense contractor for something that even if it worked would have done absolutely nothing.

madskillz wrote:

Uh, so you are saying we should take over half the US budget and spend it on border security.

That completely proves my point. Half the entire budget on border security? Did you even think before you typed that? Half the budget? Seriously?

The entire US army is about 600 thousand. So basically you want to take use them all? Seriously, did you think when you typed that? Your goal is bring home every US soldier from every base and to turn the US Army into border agents?

Lastly, you snuck in the real flaw in your plan quite subtly. Congrats. Reading carefully I notice you are really concerned with just getting started. That reminds of Bushes lets just get started and build a fence. And we know that was just a huge giveaway to a defense contractor for something that even if it worked would have done absolutely nothing.

Im saying we have trillions in waste and unconstitutional entitlements? Did you even read what I wrote before you typed. The country has the money and some to protect our borders if the politicians are serious about spending cuts and our debt. And dont believe with the right laws enforced and putting in the intial capital to get started on a serious border control that the price tag will be nearly as high as your predicting. Plus its much more expensive to keep a people isolated and imprisoned then keeping them out as the success of the Israeli wall has proved.


Never said use them all. But we dont need 190 bases spread across the globe. We could use a large portion of these people for border protection when they become civilians.

Yes get started? Thats how everything begins to accomplish a goal. So ya im concerned about geting started. Dont know where you got snucked in. And a fence is a good start and dont see it as giveaway at all with technology and man power to back it.

ssvs04 wrote:

madskillz wrote:

Uh, so you are saying we should take over half the US budget and spend it on border security.

That completely proves my point. Half the entire budget on border security? Did you even think before you typed that? Half the budget? Seriously?

The entire US army is about 600 thousand. So basically you want to take use them all? Seriously, did you think when you typed that? Your goal is bring home every US soldier from every base and to turn the US Army into border agents?

Lastly, you snuck in the real flaw in your plan quite subtly. Congrats. Reading carefully I notice you are really concerned with just getting started. That reminds of Bushes lets just get started and build a fence. And we know that was just a huge giveaway to a defense contractor for something that even if it worked would have done absolutely nothing.

Im saying we have trillions in waste and unconstitutional entitlements? Did you even read what I wrote before you typed. The country has the money and some to protect our borders if the politicians are serious about spending cuts and our debt. And dont believe with the right laws enforced and putting in the intial capital to get started on a serious border control that the price tag will be nearly as high as your predicting. Plus its much more expensive to keep a people isolated and imprisoned then keeping them out as the success of the Israeli wall has proved.


Never said use them all. But we dont need 190 bases spread across the globe. We could use a large portion of these people for border protection when they become civilians.

Yes get started? Thats how everything begins to accomplish a goal. So ya im concerned about geting started. Dont know where you got snucked in. And a fence is a good start and dont see it as giveaway at all with technology and man power to back it.

You missed my point. No one has ever come up with a plan and its costs to secure the border. Because sealing off thousands of miles of border would cost trillions and require a huge amount of manpower. The idea of "getting started" without a plan is, imo, ludicrous. Do you suggest we spend say a trillion dollars only to find it will cost 10 trillion more? And, getting started actually does nothing. If you even seal off 10 percent it does nothing. Seal off 90 percent and it still leaves a huge area undefended.

Not to mention the question of thousands and thousands of homes, businesses, etc that the Federal Government would have to acquire by use of Eminent Domain. So to start with you would have to buy hundreds and hundreds of miles of privately owned land.

Yes I say spend a trillion for the worst areas. And budget for improvements every year for say a 10 or 15 year plan until we have a secure border. Don't believe it would cost trillion to maintain it once done. In fact with people safe on our borders and 15 million illegals gone it would pay for its self on money saved on entitlements and jobs going to Americans. As I said before with a secure border it's much easier and cheaper to keep people out then in Like china is trying now spending most of it's military to keep there people under control. Or like Russia tried to do with its people.

ssvs04 wrote:

Yes I say spend a trillion for the worst areas. And budget for improvements every year for say a 10 or 15 year plan until we have a secure border. Don't believe it would cost trillion to maintain it once done. In fact with people safe on our borders and 15 million illegals gone it would pay for its self on money saved on entitlements and jobs going to Americans. As I said before with a secure border it's much easier and cheaper to keep people out then in Like china is trying now spending most of it's military to keep there people under control. Or like Russia tried to do with its people.

The idea of of spending a trillion dollars, about 30 percent of the entire budget, to work on the "worst" areas completely misses the point.
Illegal immigrants will quickly make other areas the "worst" areas.
Illegal immigrants will continue to enter in undiminished numbers until you secure say, 90-95 percent of the border. Even then you will still have huge numbers coming in.
And, to maintain security you need boots on the ground. Once again, please provide an estimate to how many people it will take to secure several thousand miles of border, 24-7, so eyebals can be kept on every single foot?
And how you would police these police so they wouldn't be vulnerable to bribery or coercion?

Listen, illegal immigrants are like drugs. As long as there is a demand for them they will be provided.

madskillz wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

Yes I say spend a trillion for the worst areas. And budget for improvements every year for say a 10 or 15 year plan until we have a secure border. Don't believe it would cost trillion to maintain it once done. In fact with people safe on our borders and 15 million illegals gone it would pay for its self on money saved on entitlements and jobs going to Americans. As I said before with a secure border it's much easier and cheaper to keep people out then in Like china is trying now spending most of it's military to keep there people under control. Or like Russia tried to do with its people.

The idea of of spending a trillion dollars, about 30 percent of the entire budget, to work on the "worst" areas completely misses the point.
Illegal immigrants will quickly make other areas the "worst" areas.
Illegal immigrants will continue to enter in undiminished numbers until you secure say, 90-95 percent of the border. Even then you will still have huge numbers coming in.
And, to maintain security you need boots on the ground. Once again, please provide an estimate to how many people it will take to secure several thousand miles of border, 24-7, so eyebals can be kept on every single foot?
And how you would police these police so they wouldn't be vulnerable to bribery or coercion?

Listen, illegal immigrants are like drugs. As long as there is a demand for them they will be provided.

You named the problems what is the solution. I have my solution and it wont cost trillions.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

madskillz wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

Yes I say spend a trillion for the worst areas. And budget for improvements every year for say a 10 or 15 year plan until we have a secure border. Don't believe it would cost trillion to maintain it once done. In fact with people safe on our borders and 15 million illegals gone it would pay for its self on money saved on entitlements and jobs going to Americans. As I said before with a secure border it's much easier and cheaper to keep people out then in Like china is trying now spending most of it's military to keep there people under control. Or like Russia tried to do with its people.

The idea of of spending a trillion dollars, about 30 percent of the entire budget, to work on the "worst" areas completely misses the point.
Illegal immigrants will quickly make other areas the "worst" areas.
Illegal immigrants will continue to enter in undiminished numbers until you secure say, 90-95 percent of the border. Even then you will still have huge numbers coming in.
And, to maintain security you need boots on the ground. Once again, please provide an estimate to how many people it will take to secure several thousand miles of border, 24-7, so eyebals can be kept on every single foot?
And how you would police these police so they wouldn't be vulnerable to bribery or coercion?

Listen, illegal immigrants are like drugs. As long as there is a demand for them they will be provided.

You named the problems what is the solution. I have my solution and it wont cost trillions.

By definition if it takes a trillion to get started, it will take more to finish.

My plan is simple and I stated it earlier in the thread. The "commercial" importers of illegals rely on corporations and companies that provide the illegals with jobs to pay of the "importers".
Currently the penalties for the American employers who knowlingly hire illegals is a joke. Entire industries like meat and poultry packers rely on a constant stream of illegals.

First off make it a real crime to hire illegals. Not one or two, but if some company hires 50 then its obvious what they are doing. Hit them very, very hard in wallet and send the executives to jail.

Second, change Social Security witholding rules so that all new employees numbers be sent to SS within two weeks. Then set up the SS computers to look for instances of two or more people reporting income in two or more different areas.
Illegals have to report a SS number. And they usually use false or stolen ones, but leave the job before SS gets the records and gets around to notifyiing the company of a problem.

Once the commercial importers of illegals have no easy access to jobs for thier imports you will see a real drop in illegals.

madskillz wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

Yes I say spend a trillion for the worst areas. And budget for improvements every year for say a 10 or 15 year plan until we have a secure border. Don't believe it would cost trillion to maintain it once done. In fact with people safe on our borders and 15 million illegals gone it would pay for its self on money saved on entitlements and jobs going to Americans. As I said before with a secure border it's much easier and cheaper to keep people out then in Like china is trying now spending most of it's military to keep there people under control. Or like Russia tried to do with its people.

The idea of of spending a trillion dollars, about 30 percent of the entire budget, to work on the "worst" areas completely misses the point.
Illegal immigrants will quickly make other areas the "worst" areas.
Illegal immigrants will continue to enter in undiminished numbers until you secure say, 90-95 percent of the border. Even then you will still have huge numbers coming in.
And, to maintain security you need boots on the ground. Once again, please provide an estimate to how many people it will take to secure several thousand miles of border, 24-7, so eyebals can be kept on every single foot?
And how you would police these police so they wouldn't be vulnerable to bribery or coercion?

Listen, illegal immigrants are like drugs. As long as there is a demand for them they will be provided.

Not missing any point. You need a tight secure border and strong internal laws you are suggesting on immigration for it all to work. And im just throwing a number out there in terms of what we could cut in spending to put towards border security without affecting our countries budget. Use 500 billion a year on the worst areas then. And continue every year with a significant budget as they change there tactics to get across with drugs and people. I have no idea what you would need in boots but it can be dramatically reduced with the technology we use with drones and other tech they use to detect people in unwanted areas. And we have never had anything but a very small percentage of police and military susceptible to bribery without being eventually weeded out. So that is not a big concern to me. But you cant just have strong internal laws without a very hard to cross border.