Herman Cains 666 Devil Plan to destroy America.

When Herman Cain proposed his 999 plan I immediately thought, well, he's finished as a candidate. I mean, obviously, its the stupidest plan ever.

Imagine my suprise when people actually thought it would be a good thing!

Clearly our economy would collapse within a year of this plan. And we might never recover from the depression.

Is Herman Cain the Anti-Christ?

His plan is just so wrong on so many levels. Shifting the tax costs hugely away from the richest Americans to the rest of us will immediately crash the housing market. At a 9 percent sales tax, brick and mortar stores will close by the tens of thousands. Of course, non taxable internet sales will soar. Which will immediately ensure the 999 plan becomes an 11 or 12 plan. Demand will plummet as many, many people will no longer be even able to afford the basics of life. Millions of workers will immediately be laid off and replaced by far fewer workers at the vast internet warehouses. Local utilities and service companies will raise rates hugely as they lose millions of customers. And then lay off huge numbers of workers.

There would be immediate layoffs in the financial industry. Who will buy stock when there is a 9-10-11 percent or more sales tax on every sale?

Right now about 50 percent of companies pay no federal corporate tax, so the idea that companies will charge less for their products is ridiculous.

My cable company charges what they do because thats what the market will bear. They have a monoply on wired cable service in my town. They will happily pocket any money they save on corporate taxes. While I will pay 9 percent more on my cable bill.

And I wonder how much gas I will able to afford when it costs 9 percent more?

The only thing I wonder about is how people feel about their savings being taxed at 9 percent whenever they withdraw money earned under the old tax plan and now have to pay a 9 percent sales tax on it?

madskillz wrote:

When Herman Cain proposed his 999 plan I immediately thought, well, he's finished as a candidate. I mean, obviously, its the stupidest plan ever.

Imagine my suprise when people actually thought it would be a good thing!

Clearly our economy would collapse within a year of this plan. And we might never recover from the depression.

Is Herman Cain the Anti-Christ?

His plan is just so wrong on so many levels. Shifting the tax costs hugely away from the richest Americans to the rest of us will immediately crash the housing market. At a 9 percent sales tax, brick and mortar stores will close by the tens of thousands. Of course, non taxable internet sales will soar. Which will immediately ensure the 999 plan becomes an 11 or 12 plan. Demand will plummet as many, many people will no longer be even able to afford the basics of life. Millions of workers will immediately be laid off and replaced by far fewer workers at the vast internet warehouses. Local utilities and service companies will raise rates hugely as they lose millions of customers. And then lay off huge numbers of workers.

There would be immediate layoffs in the financial industry. Who will buy stock when there is a 9-10-11 percent or more sales tax on every sale?

Right now about 50 percent of companies pay no federal corporate tax, so the idea that companies will charge less for their products is ridiculous.

My cable company charges what they do because thats what the market will bear. They have a monoply on wired cable service in my town. They will happily pocket any money they save on corporate taxes. While I will pay 9 percent more on my cable bill.

And I wonder how much gas I will able to afford when it costs 9 percent more?

The only thing I wonder about is how people feel about their savings being taxed at 9 percent whenever they withdraw money earned under the old tax plan and now have to pay a 9 percent sales tax on it?

I know that is the conventional wisdom on the left. However Cain has ran companies saved companies. The guys not stupid. 9-9-9 is actually a smart plan. Now Canada has something similar and look at there economy it is doing far better. They have a 6 percent sales tax however that tax is imbedded in the cost. You don't see it. That is what Cains plan does. Stores would not close corperations would finally start hiring. Because we would have a stable plan instead of some plan that changes every year. America needs a 10 year business plan.

The democrats have offered nothing in the last 3 years. No budget nothing. It is time for Washington to grow up.

I know such a dumb idea from a person who probably has more success in the private sector then all of the Washington politicians combined. Just horrible to imagine a plan where I dont spend countless hours and hundreds of dollars every year to have someone doing my taxes with the most unfair system to ever be in existence. How dare he come up with a plan where everyone pays the same amount and all people participate in a Republic by actually paying taxes.

ssvs04 wrote:

I know such a dumb idea from a person who probably has more success in the private sector then all of the Washington politicians combined. Just horrible to imagine a plan where I dont spend countless hours and hundreds of dollars every year to have someone doing my taxes with the most unfair system to ever be in existence. How dare he come up with a plan where everyone pays the same amount and all people participate in a Republic by actually paying taxes.

Well, you may like the idea of a huge tax increase but I hate it.

Actual picture of Cain pushing his 666 devil plan.

madskillz wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

I know such a dumb idea from a person who probably has more success in the private sector then all of the Washington politicians combined. Just horrible to imagine a plan where I dont spend countless hours and hundreds of dollars every year to have someone doing my taxes with the most unfair system to ever be in existence. How dare he come up with a plan where everyone pays the same amount and all people participate in a Republic by actually paying taxes.

Well, you may like the idea of a huge tax increase but I hate it.

Its not a tax increase. A flat 27% would be a tax break for me. Now if there is not a plan to keep it at that rate the democrats will soon have it 20/20/20.

ssvs04 wrote:

madskillz wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

I know such a dumb idea from a person who probably has more success in the private sector then all of the Washington politicians combined. Just horrible to imagine a plan where I dont spend countless hours and hundreds of dollars every year to have someone doing my taxes with the most unfair system to ever be in existence. How dare he come up with a plan where everyone pays the same amount and all people participate in a Republic by actually paying taxes.

Well, you may like the idea of a huge tax increase but I hate it.

Its not a tax increase. A flat 27% would be a tax break for me. Now if there is not a plan to keep it at that rate the democrats will soon have it 20/20/20.

Wow. The 27% tax bracket would mean you earn over 300,000 a year (single, standard deduction)
What do you do that you make over 300,000 a year???

Don't quite make that much but I'm paying around 30% according to my wife who handles our personal business finances. A plan like cains would also save my wife many hours of time each week. And a professional accountant during tax time to make sure everything is good to go when I pay the IRS. I pray our current tax system is history very soon.

ssvs04 wrote:

Don't quite make that much but I'm paying around 30% according to my wife who handles our personal business finances. A plan like cains would also save my wife many hours of time each week. And a professional accountant during tax time to make sure everything is good to go when I pay the IRS. I pray our current tax system is history very soon.

Well, I have to call shens. The marginal tax rate can be calculated using hundreds of online calculators. Here's just one:
dinkytown.net/java/TaxMargin.html

While you may be getting that figure from your combined state (if your state has an income tax) and federal tax, the numbers still wouldn't add up if you were filing jointly.

It also doesn't seem to add up, since if you are using a professional accountant then you would most certainly be itemizing or have other deductions that would make it worthwhile to go to a professional accountant.

btw I own a small computer business. My bookeeper (not an accountant) does my books and fills out my taxes. I pay about 350 a year for the entire service with the largest part by far the paying of a clerk to go thru all my physical receipts and posting them to my quickbooks.

In fact well over half of Americans don't itemize. Though virtually everyone paying off a mortgage does. Filling out a 1040ez is actually pretty e.z. So, if you are paying someone to do your taxes its because you can save money by itemizing. Of course, things like the 666 Devil plan and Perrys huge tax for the rich plan may or may not actually save you the money you spend on an accountant now. I would guess that you would probably pay more under Perrys plan since your tax preparer would have to do two sets of taxes to see which option saved you more.

The idea that a flat rate plan is "better" since it is simpler is pretty wacky in my opinion. You have to figure out how it actually affects what people pay.

I have what I believe to be a much better plan. NO itemizing, nothing but a standard deduction and charitable deduction for anyone making over 300,000 a year. And go back to the 2000 top tax rate for those people. Closes every loophole. And really rich people could do their own taxes!

Gee thanks for explaining to me how I pay my taxes and why. But your wrong on all counts. Florida has no state tax and im talking just income tax. Any flat tax ive heard so far would save me money over the current tax plan. Period! If you thinking spending hours every week and then going through 500 pages of itemization to pay my taxes every year is wacky then Im the king of wacky.

All I know is our current tax plan SUCKS, there are too many loopholes (truthfully though, if there was one I could use successfully, I wouldn't complain so much, I suppose) and every year it gets worse and worse.

Walterth3rd wrote:

All I know is our current tax plan SUCKS, there are too many loopholes (truthfully though, if there was one I could use successfully, I wouldn't complain so much, I suppose) and every year it gets worse and worse.

Well, that's why my plan works.
The idea that over 85 percent of people have to pay more taxes just to go to a simpler tax system is wacky. Just keep the progressive income tax and remove the loopholes.

ssvs04 wrote:

Gee thanks for explaining to me how I pay my taxes and why. But your wrong on all counts. Florida has no state tax and im talking just income tax. Any flat tax ive heard so far would save me money over the current tax plan. Period! If you thinking spending hours every week and then going through 500 pages of itemization to pay my taxes every year is wacky then Im the king of wacky.

It just doesn't make sense. As I showed you your tax rate is less than 27 percent just taking the standard deduction, yet you claim 27 percent is less than you are paying now.
And, anyone wo has 500 pages of itemizations, well, I know you are exagerating.
And I can't imagine ANYONE spending hours every week on thier taxes.

Here is what I have learned about the whole tax debate.
When people make claims that are obviously and completely wacky, and make absolutely no sense, I ignore them.
If you want to make claims, you really should understand that things like tax rates are easily found out online.

Well the taxe system doesnt make sense but it still doesnt make my taxes below 27% but again thanks for telling me what I pay. I have at minium 2 pages of itemization for each day not including 4 or 5 receipts per day also. So if anything its more then 500 pages. But once again you seem to know what I do in a day better then me. Maybe now you will ignore me :suspect:

ssvs04 wrote:

Well the taxe system doesnt make sense but it still doesnt make my taxes below 27% but again thanks for telling me what I pay. I have at minium 2 pages of itemization for each day not including 4 or 5 receipts per day also. So if anything its more then 500 pages. But once again you seem to know what I do in a day better then me. Maybe now you will ignore me :suspect:

You are claiming you have two pages of income tax itemization PER DAY?

Ok, yeah, right.

Oh, and you claim you pay more than the tax rate that you should, as defined by LAW, despite doing two pages of itemizations per day.

I'm going to give you some free advice. Simply use the standard deduction and you will save yourself TWO PAGES of itemization PER DAY. AND you will PAY LESS IN TAXES.

Darn your still not ignoring me and telling me what my work is for the day. And! Giving me awful tax advice. No wonder dems have created a convoluted tax system over the decades.

ssvs04 wrote:

Darn your still not ignoring me and telling me what my work is for the day. And! Giving me awful tax advice. No wonder dems have created a convoluted tax system over the decades.

Dude, you have been pwned.
I understand that you are a tea bagger and as such belong to what is essentially a religous type sect that has been proven to be mostly unaware of reality.

As to the idea that you make about 300,000 dollars a year, well, based on your posts in this thread, I just can't believe it.

And thats why true small business people like myself who have to live in the real world understand that any tax plan that basically shifts hundreds of billions of dollars of tax liability from the wealthiest to the poorest will immediately crash the economy and put tens of millions of people out of work.

madskillz wrote:

I understand that you are a tea bagger...

There's really no need to resort to homosexual slurs, well beyond the fact that you're a liberal anyway.

eber322 wrote:

madskillz wrote:

I understand that you are a tea bagger...

There's really no need to resort to homosexual slurs, well beyond the fact that you're a liberal anyway.

Actually getting tea bagged is great on a Saturday night.
Not so great if its your religion.

[quote="madskillz"]

ssvs04 wrote:

Darn your still not ignoring me and telling me what my work is for the day. And! Giving me awful tax advice. No wonder dems have created a convoluted tax system over the decades.

Dude, you have been pwned.
I understand that you are a tea bagger and as such belong to what is essentially a religous type sect that has been proven to be mostly unaware of reality.

As to the idea that you make about 300,000 dollars a year, well, based on your posts in this thread, I just can't believe it.

And thats why true small business people like myself who have to live in the real world understand that any tax plan that basically shifts hundreds of billions of dollars of tax liability from the wealthiest to the poorest will immediately crash the economy and put tens of millions of people out of

Your funny. Real world. Liberals thinking and the real world are not compatable. You mean a tax plan that has worked in every country tried and bringing the government more revenue. That plan that's hasnt harmed any economy. But you just keep assuming sense You have no idea what my business is or what I do. I've said I don't make over 300,000. And your wrong about my tax percentage and what I have to itemize. But ya you got me;)



And I'm a atheist so I don't follow the tea party for religious reasons. It's all about the constitution and having government out of my life the sect that the left like to follow.

[quote="ssvs04"]

madskillz wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

Darn your still not ignoring me and telling me what my work is for the day. And! Giving me awful tax advice. No wonder dems have created a convoluted tax system over the decades.

Dude, you have been pwned.
I understand that you are a tea bagger and as such belong to what is essentially a religous type sect that has been proven to be mostly unaware of reality.

As to the idea that you make about 300,000 dollars a year, well, based on your posts in this thread, I just can't believe it.

And thats why true small business people like myself who have to live in the real world understand that any tax plan that basically shifts hundreds of billions of dollars of tax liability from the wealthiest to the poorest will immediately crash the economy and put tens of millions of people out of

Your funny. Real world. Liberals thinking and the real world are not compatable. You mean a tax plan that has worked in every country tried and bringing the government more revenue. That plan that's hasnt harmed any economy. But you just keep assuming sense You have no idea what my business is or what I do. I've said I don't make over 300,000. And your wrong about my tax percentage and what I have to itemize. But ya you got me;)



And I'm a atheist so I don't follow the tea party for religious reasons. It's all about the constitution and having government out of my life the sect that the left like to follow.

You mean the tax plan that brought Europe to its fiscal knees?

Oh, and your idea of getting the government out of your life was tried. And it gave us everything from no middle class to food that was poisonous.

ssvs04 wrote:

Any flat tax ive heard so far would save me money over the current tax plan. Period! If you thinking spending hours every week and then going through 500 pages of itemization to pay my taxes every year is wacky then Im the king of wacky.

Thank you. Not only would it save time and paperwork,but everyone would HAVE to pay and would therefore keep government living within it's means.I make way way less than $300,00 and just squeak by not having to pay to much. Mostly it's because I hold a lot of inventory that is taxable.

ford plasko wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

Any flat tax ive heard so far would save me money over the current tax plan. Period! If you thinking spending hours every week and then going through 500 pages of itemization to pay my taxes every year is wacky then Im the king of wacky.

Thank you. Not only would it save time and paperwork,but everyone would HAVE to pay and would therefore keep government living within it's means.I make way way less than $300,00 and just squeak by not having to pay to much. Mostly it's because I hold a lot of inventory that is taxable.

Once again you fail to understand the very basics.
EVERY flat tax basically reduces the amount the very very rich pay and transfer that burden onto us.

Secondly, every itemized deduction is a tax break you would NO longer recieve under a flat tax. Once again increasing your taxes. Own a home? No more tax break. Have medical bills, no more tax break. Get medical insurance thru work? Businesses would no longer get a tax break on providing health insurance. No more health insurance thru work.

And the whole idea that a flat tax would make government live "within its means" is perhaps the most quoted fallacy of all. Ask yourself, outside of fringe candidates EXACTLY what programs, spending the Presidential candidates have proposed. NOTHING that would even dent the deficit. So, a flat tax would increase just as much as a progressive tax.

Of course, a flat tax would immediately send our economy into a great depression. And, probably lead to pure socialism. After all, every flat tax plan will harm a majority of Americans. And once the economy crashes this majority will become radicalized.
I guess it has taken a generations of poor education for Americans to actually believe shifing a huge portion of the tax burden from the super rich, to themselve, would actually help them.

ssvs04 wrote:

Gee thanks for explaining to me how I pay my taxes and why. But your wrong on all counts. Florida has no state tax and im talking just income tax. Any flat tax ive heard so far would save me money over the current tax plan. Period! If you thinking spending hours every week and then going through 500 pages of itemization to pay my taxes every year is wacky then Im the king of wacky.

So I let a bookeeper look at this thread. I fix computers and one of my business clients is an accounting/bookeeping firm.

She said she has never seen anyone with 500 pages of itemization in 30 years as a bookeeper.

She said your posts clearly don't make sense. The only thing she suggested was that you are counting your business expense receipts as "itemizad deductions" And that for filing purposes almost all fall on a single line. Some things like large purchase amortizations do require their own lines and have to be calculated using a formula.

The idea that under a flat tax, or any tax, that you would not have to keep track of your business expenses is false. In order to determine your profit you MUST keep track of your expenses. No one has ever put forth a plan that would exempt you from determining your profit. If they did you would have to claim your gross receipts as income.

As to paying 30 percent of your income for taxes, she just laughed and said you can't be serious. She said she read your posts twice and if you are sticking to your story you are probably lying (her words)

Anyway, you have yet to make any sense in your claims.

[quote="madskillz"]

ssvs04 wrote:

madskillz wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

Darn your still not ignoring me and telling me what my work is for the day. And! Giving me awful tax advice. No wonder dems have created a convoluted tax system over the decades.

Dude, you have been pwned.
I understand that you are a tea bagger and as such belong to what is essentially a religous type sect that has been proven to be mostly unaware of reality.

As to the idea that you make about 300,000 dollars a year, well, based on your posts in this thread, I just can't believe it.

And thats why true small business people like myself who have to live in the real world understand that any tax plan that basically shifts hundreds of billions of dollars of tax liability from the wealthiest to the poorest will immediately crash the economy and put tens of millions of people out of

Your funny. Real world. Liberals thinking and the real world are not compatable. You mean a tax plan that has worked in every country tried and bringing the government more revenue. That plan that's hasnt harmed any economy. But you just keep assuming sense You have no idea what my business is or what I do. I've said I don't make over 300,000. And your wrong about my tax percentage and what I have to itemize. But ya you got me;)



And I'm a atheist so I don't follow the tea party for religious reasons. It's all about the constitution and having government out of my life the sect that the left like to follow.

You mean the tax plan that brought Europe to its fiscal knees?

Oh, and your idea of getting the government out of your life was tried. And it gave us everything from no middle class to food that was poisonous.

Countries flat tax is working much better then hoped for and more countries considering it because of the success.


Today, much of the world seems to have learned the lessons that members of Congress didn’t. Beginning with Estonia in 1994, a growing number of nations have joined the flat tax club. There are now 17 jurisdictions that have some form of flat tax, and two more nations are about to join the club. As seen in Table 1, most of the new flat tax nations are former Soviet republics or former Soviet bloc nations, perhaps because people who suffered under communism are less susceptible to class-warfare rhetoric about "taxing the rich."



Flat Tax Lessons

The flat tax revolution raises three important questions: Why is it happening? What does the future hold? Should American policymakers learn any lessons?

The answer to the first question is a combination of principled leadership, tax competition, and learning by example. Flat tax pioneers such as Mart Laar (prime minister of Estonia), Andrei Illarionov (chief economic adviser to the president in Russia), and Ivan Miklos (finance minister in Slovakia) were motivated at least in part by their understanding of good tax policy and their desire to implement pro-growth reforms. But tax competition also has been an important factor, particularly in the recent wave of flat tax reforms. In a global economy, lawmakers increasingly realize that it is important to lower tax rates and reduce discriminatory burdens on saving and investment. A better fiscal climate plays a key role both in luring jobs and capital from other nations and in reducing the incentive for domestic taxpayers to shift economic activity to other nations.

Moreover, politicians are influenced by real-world evidence. Nations that have adopted flat tax systems generally have experienced very positive outcomes. Economic growth increases, unemployment drops, and tax compliance improves. Nations such as Estonia and Slovakia are widely viewed as role models since both have engaged in dramatic reform and are reaping enormous economic benefits. Policymakers in other nations see those results and conclude that tax reform is a relatively risk-free proposition. That is especially important since international bureaucracies such as the International Monetary Fund usually try to discourage governments from lowering tax rates and adopting pro-growth reforms.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v29n4/cpr29n4-1.html

Neil Reynolds. "The spreading hegemony of the flat tax". The Globe and Mail (Canada). 19 Dec. 2007 - We begin this progress report on the global flat tax revolution with the curious case of the Pridnestrovie Moldavian Republic [...] it has adopted a flat tax - at a rate of 10 per cent - on all personal and corporate income. In doing so, it becomes the eighth jurisdiction from the old USSR to opt for a flat-tax regime. (The others: Georgia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Romania and Russia itself.)[...]More importantly, Poland will be the next European country to adopt flat taxes.

[...]The Czech Republic, also next door to Germany, introduces its own flat tax reforms on Jan. 1 at an initial rate of 15 per cent but dropping to 12.5 per cent one year later. It will cut its corporate income tax rate (to 19 per cent from 25 per cent) on Jan. 1, 2010. The country's precariously balanced 200-member lower house of parliament approved these flat tax reforms by 101 votes; Czech President Vaclav Klaus, a free-market economist, will have no problem getting them through the upper house, where the government has a large majority.

Bulgaria also introduces flat taxes in the new year, becoming the seventh EU country to choose a flat tax regime for personal income taxes. The rate will be 10 per cent. Bulgaria's parliament adopted the reforms by overwhelming majority - 152 votes to 36 votes.

Elsewhere, Mauritius, the island nation in the Indian Ocean, decided two years ago to introduce flat taxes, deciding to implement them in 2009. For one reason or another, it couldn't wait. It introduced the new system this past summer instead, using the same rate - 15 per cent - for personal and corporate income. And Hong Kong, where citizens can choose to file either a progressive tax return or a flat tax return, has reduced its flat tax personal rate to 15 per cent from 16 per cent and its corporate rate to 16 per cent from 17 per cent.

In response, Taiwan has announced that it will cut its corporate rate to 16.5 per cent from 25 per cent.



Im sorry when you have 80,000 plus pages of regulation just for wall street then its not getting government out of your life. It hasnt even been close to being tried.