Health care Debate.

eber322 wrote:

steve2112 wrote:

So when exactly did democracy die in this country?

A long time ago, about the same time the gold standard was done away with.

And the central banks.. The one thing our founding fathers told us to never do.

Texas and several other states are going to take this to court the minute the final bill is signed. You cant treat one state different then others when putting forth new laws for the country. Also its unconstitutional to force people to buy insurance and fine them if they dont. This will be in the courts for the next ten years at least before a decision is made if they can do this.

A look of things to come?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
So what next,the government takeover of hospitals?

What happens if the doctors just refuse to treat people that have government insurance?

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

What happens if the doctors just refuse to treat people that have government insurance?

It would be the best thing for American healthcare if every doctor stopped excepting any form of government insurance. It would force capitalism back into our system that created the best medicine in the world.

ssvs04 wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

What happens if the doctors just refuse to treat people that have government insurance?

It would be the best thing for American healthcare if every doctor stopped excepting any form of government insurance. It would force capitalism back into our system that created the best medicine in the world.

I think you are right. However will the government force them to take it?

The government is not going to force anyone to do anything. Health care is a problem in this country and needs to be dealt with. President Obama is doing nothing more then trying to make it fair for every American. No one should go without health insurance conservatives have no plan.

At least the democrats are trying to do something for the American people. For those that cannot afford health insurance. This is deficit neutral according to the CBO. What is wrong with insuring 36 million people who do not have insurance?

Justice. wrote:

The government is not going to force anyone to do anything. Health care is a problem in this country and needs to be dealt with. President Obama is doing nothing more then trying to make it fair for every American. No one should go without health insurance conservatives have no plan.

At least the democrats are trying to do something for the American people. For those that cannot afford health insurance. This is deficit neutral according to the CBO. What is wrong with insuring 36 million people who do not have insurance?

First show me anywhere in the consitution that it says health care is a right. As a confederation of independent states, the "general welfare" was intended to cover anything that benefitted the union as a whole, such as military hardware for the common defense. The central government does not exist to provide a paycheck, a job, a road, health care, charity for the indigent, or a minimum wage. The Founders believed these to be individual responsibilities, and they would not have viewed the transfer of responibility from individuals to the government as a sign of progress.

Second I guess you have not been paying attention. The government is going to force every American to HAVE to pay for insurance or get fined. That sure sounds like forcing to me. Their are something like a hundred new taxes in this bill. Do you call this not forcing it on the people.

Maybe you should go to the GOP website before writing. They do have a plan its just doesnt require 2000 pages of government hell brought into our lives.

The American people have spoken. They oppose government-run health care. Republicans are on the side of the American people.


What Americans want are common-sense, responsible solutions that address the rising cost of health care and other major problems. In the national Republican address on Saturday, October 31, 2009, House Republican Leader John Boehner (R-OH) discussed Republicans’ plan for common-sense health care reform our nation can afford. Boehner’s address emphasized four common-sense reforms that will lower health care costs and expand access to quality care without a government takeover of our nation’s health care system that kills jobs, raises taxes on small businesses, or cuts Medicare for seniors:

■Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines.
■Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.
■Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.
■Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.
For the full text of Leader Boehner’s address, click HERE.

For more information about some of the other common-sense health care reforms proposed by Republicans, please visit the links below:

■Empowering Patients First Act (Republican Study Committee Health Care Reform Bill, introduced July 30, 2009)
■Improving Health Care for All Americans Act (Shadegg Health Care Reform Bill, introduced July 14, 2009)
■Medical Rights & Reform Act (Kirk-Dent Health Care Reform Bill, introduced June 16, 2009)
■Help Efficient, Accessible, Low-cost, Timely Healthcare (HEALTH) Act (Gingrey medical liability reform bill, introduced June 6, 2009)
■Small Business Health Fairness Act of 2009 (Johnson small business health plans bill, introduced May 21, 2009)
■Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act of 2009 (Castle Wellness & Prevention Bill, introduced July 31, 2009)
■Improved Employee Access to Health Insurance Act of 2009 (Deal auto-enrollment bill, introduced October 15, 2009)
■Health Insurance Access for Young Workers and College Students Act of 2009 (Blunt bill to improve health insurance coverage of dependents, introduced October 21, 2009)

Third please show me anything the government has ever done in its entire history that was done effecient, on budget and good as private sector. ANYTHING! This will not be deficit nuetral. Their will be rationing just like in the U.K. that killed my grandmother.

Ben Nelson has called up the South Carolina attorney and has asked him to drop the lawsuit if they made the same provision for every state that the sweet heart deal Nebraska got. Good thing is the attorney told Ben Nelson the liberal democrat to go pack sand.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/02/senate-dem-asks-south-carolinas-attorney-dogs/?test=latestnews

What gets me is these people like Justice come in here make claims and cut and run like chickens and dont defend what they say with any proof. Come on give me something. Even some liberal crazy web site to defend your claims. Something?!

ssvs04 wrote:

What gets me is these people like Justice come in here make claims and cut and run like chickens and dont defend what they say with any proof. Come on give me something. Even some liberal crazy web site to defend your claims. Something?!

I'm thinking Justice, Freedom, American are all the same guy anyway. Not only do they spout the same stuff, they even have the same trend in user names. Next he'll be on here calling himself "Liberty".

You claim it will be a small business killer yet Canada, England, Germany all have small business. Yet they survived.

Letting insurance companies cross state lines will do nothing more then let bigger insurance charge higher rates to states that have lower rates.

I am for a loser pays system I think that would curb a lot of stupid lawsuits.

The government runs the military FBI CIA and they do a good job with those.

As far as health insurance rights. The right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Life being the big one. So there you go everyone is entitled to life. The big insurance should not be allowed to deny coverage.

Justice. wrote:

You claim it will be a small business killer yet Canada, England, Germany all have small business. Yet they survived.

Letting insurance companies cross state lines will do nothing more then let bigger insurance charge higher rates to states that have lower rates.

I am for a loser pays system I think that would curb a lot of stupid lawsuits.

The government runs the military FBI CIA and they do a good job with those.

As far as health insurance rights. The right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Life being the big one. So there you go everyone is entitled to life. The big insurance should not be allowed to deny coverage.

And England and Canadas health care system are on the verge of collapse and bankruptcy. Small business is surviving but they are not flurishing under socialist rule.

Small Business Suffering from Economic Slowdown

A number of recent surveys have revealed a sharp rise in the number of business failures and a fall in the level of business confidence and optimism in the owners of small and medium sized enterprises.

The Bowmark Optimism index tracks how positive company directors feel about the future of their business operations. 70% of those recently surveyed noted that government legislative intervention was an obstacle to growth and two-thirds thought business taxation was as an obstacle for doing business. The report also highlighted a sharp rise in the cost of energy businesses consume, as well as a slowdown in revenue and profit growth. Lastly, one quarter of those surveyed, mentioned that the availability of credit has worsened due to the credit crunch. The survey also reveals that companies expect to cut back on staffing levels in the future. There is an air of pessimism and negativity amongst business leaders, as most seem to expect things to get worse before they get better.

Meanwhile, Experian the credit referencing agency, recently noted that there has been a 15 per cent rise in the number of business failures in the last six months (compared to this time last year), as trading conditions become tougher. In particular, there has been an 81% increase in property related businesses are failing. Unsurprisingly, this has been due to the cooling down of the housing market and the collapse of the buy to let investment sector. The report also noted a 125% increase in the number (typically banking led) receiverships and a rise in company arrangements and administrations. A similar report from Equifax noted on the 29% jump business failures compared to this month last year. Failures occurred across all what vertical industry sectors.

With nominal growth expected across most industry sectors, it is becoming increasing difficult to maintain previous levels of margins, especially while sales remained flat or falling and expenses continue to climb. The rising cost of raw materials for small businesses is becoming a major worry. This is forcing some businesses to cut back on staffing levels and prevent inflation linked to pay rises. Indeed, some larger house builders and commercial property companies, such as Taylor Wimpey and Barrat, have already announced job losses and profit warnings, as their share prices collapse.

In the corporate sector there is also more bad news. The Bank of Scotland has posted a £691 million loss, which was due to a £6 billion credit write down. While the troubled bank of Northern Rock had to go cap in hand to the government, who provided £3 billion pounds of the private equity capital for shares; in effect exposing the taxpayer too a potential loss. Embarrassingly, the Rock continues to have to repossess properties from its own lending book who took out 125% mortgages just before the credit crunch hit around one year ago. There appear to be no light at the end of the UK domestic mortgage market at the moment; the liquidity stagnation of the wholesale money markets is continuing and is expected to have to carry on throughout 2009.

The UK domestic housing market continues to slow. HBOS has recently reported an 8.8% drop in prices compared to one year ago. There has been a 70% drop in number of mortgage approvals over the last year. The Land Registry stats show a 80% fall in new homes sold since this time last year. While the Council of Mortgage Lenders today revealed a future 40% jump in the number of repossessions in the first half of 2008. This represents the highest level of repossessions and 12 years. Almost 19,000 homes were repossessed, as borrowers failed to keep up with mortgage repayments. Despite the recent announcement of from the Bank of England that it would maintain interest rates at 5%, mortgage lenders continue to charge borrowers at a higher interest rate (compare the base rate), in order to offset the increased risk of bad debt form homeowners. It shows that mortgage affordability continues to be a serious issue for homeowners. It also poses a dilemma for policy makers, who desperately don't want stagflation before a forthcoming election. This is having a big impact on consumer confidence and a knock on effect on high street spending.

While huge multinationals can weather the financial storm by closing branches, laying off staff and slashing expenses, the same cannot be necessarily said for small businesses. Cash flow remains the number one priority for struggling and pessimistic business owners. In all likelihood, small businesses will have to whether a recessionary environment over the next year.

This show you no nothing about capitalism. Everytime you give the free market freedom from government it creates more competition and is only a benefit to the consumers.

Yes the government runs FBI, CIA and the military. But these government run programs are far from effecient on their spending. Now the government wants to run health care with 300,000,000 plus Americans which will cost more then all of the above combined yearly and you think their wont be rationing.

The meaning to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness means you have the freedom for those opportunitys but its up to YOU not the government to make that happen for yourself. So their you go, get off your butt and make it happen on your own.

C-Span calls out Obama.
And does it look like Obama is grabbing Hitlerys Ass?

Quote :

The head of C-SPAN has implored Congress to open up the last leg of health care reform negotiations to the public, as top Democrats lay plans to hash out the final product among themselves.

C-SPAN CEO Brian Lamb wrote to leaders in the House and Senate Dec. 30 urging them to open "all important negotiations, including any conference committee meetings," to televised coverage on his network.

"The C-SPAN networks will commit the necessary resources to covering all of the sessions LIVE and in their entirety," he wrote.

Congressional leaders, however, reportedly are expected to bypass the traditional conference committee process, in which lawmakers from both parties and chambers meet to reconcile differences between the House and Senate versions of a bill. Instead, The Associated Press reports that top Democrats at the House, Senate and White House will figure out the final product in three-way talks before sending it back to both chambers for a final vote.

This format would seem ideal for closed-door meetings, which congressional Democrats have used many times to figure out sensitive provisions in the health care bill -- though President Obama pledged during the campaign to open up health care talks to C-SPAN's cameras.

"That's what I will do in bringing all parties together, not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together, and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are," Obama said at a debate against Hillary Clinton in Los Angeles on Jan. 31, 2008.

Lamb urged Congress in his letter to fling open the doors in the final stretch of the negotiations.

"President Obama, Senate and House leaders, many of your rank-and-file members, and the nation's editorial pages have all talked about the value of transparent discussions on reforming the nation's health care system," he wrote. "Now that the process moves to the critical stage of reconciliation between the chambers, we respectfully request that you allow the public full access, through television, to legislation that will affect the lives of every single American."

Lamb said his network would use "the latest technology" to be "as unobtrusive as possible" during the talks.

And England and Canadas health care system are on the verge of collapse and bankruptcy.

I don’t know about Canada’s but the NHS is not on the verge of collapse, and even Cameron is in support of it. I have said before that a political party in the UK that destroys the NHS will not be the Government at the next election. Cameron knows this; it is his nightmare that the Labour Party should convince the electorate that this is his intention.

Small business is surviving but they are not flurishing under socialist rule.

Believe you me New Labour is a long long long way from Socialist Rule, if Tony Benn were leader of the Labour Party... my things would be different. There’s a man I’d vote for.

Small Business Suffering from Economic Slowdown

So is the US, so is Europe so is everyone. On an historical note they suffered even more in the UK under Thatcher’s Monetarist policies, only the city really prospered.

A number of recent surveys have revealed a sharp rise in the number of business failures and a fall in the level of business confidence and optimism in the owners of small and medium sized enterprises.

The Bowmark Optimism index tracks how positive company directors feel about the future of their business operations. 70% of those recently surveyed noted that government legislative intervention was an obstacle to growth and two-thirds thought business taxation was as an obstacle for doing business. The report also highlighted a sharp rise in the cost of energy businesses consume, as well as a slowdown in revenue and profit growth. Lastly, one quarter of those surveyed, mentioned that the availability of credit has worsened due to the credit crunch. The survey also reveals that companies expect to cut back on staffing levels in the future. There is an air of pessimism and negativity amongst business leaders, as most seem to expect things to get worse before they get better.

Meanwhile, Experian the credit referencing agency, recently noted that there has been a 15 per cent rise in the number of business failures in the last six months (compared to this time last year), as trading conditions become tougher. In particular, there has been an 81% increase in property related businesses are failing. Unsurprisingly, this has been due to the cooling down of the housing market and the collapse of the buy to let investment sector. The report also noted a 125% increase in the number (typically banking led) receiverships and a rise in company arrangements and administrations. A similar report from Equifax noted on the 29% jump business failures compared to this month last year. Failures occurred across all what vertical industry sectors.

With nominal growth expected across most industry sectors, it is becoming increasing difficult to maintain previous levels of margins, especially while sales remained flat or falling and expenses continue to climb. The rising cost of raw materials for small businesses is becoming a major worry. This is forcing some businesses to cut back on staffing levels and prevent inflation linked to pay rises. Indeed, some larger house builders and commercial property companies, such as Taylor Wimpey and Barrat, have already announced job losses and profit warnings, as their share prices collapse.

In the corporate sector there is also more bad news. The Bank of Scotland has posted a £691 million loss, which was due to a £6 billion credit write down. While the troubled bank of Northern Rock had to go cap in hand to the government, who provided £3 billion pounds of the private equity capital for shares; in effect exposing the taxpayer too a potential loss. Embarrassingly, the Rock continues to have to repossess properties from its own lending book who took out 125% mortgages just before the credit crunch hit around one year ago. There appear to be no light at the end of the UK domestic mortgage market at the moment; the liquidity stagnation of the wholesale money markets is continuing and is expected to have to carry on throughout 2009.

The UK domestic housing market continues to slow. HBOS has recently reported an 8.8% drop in prices compared to one year ago. There has been a 70% drop in number of mortgage approvals over the last year. The Land Registry stats show a 80% fall in new homes sold since this time last year. While the Council of Mortgage Lenders today revealed a future 40% jump in the number of repossessions in the first half of 2008. This represents the highest level of repossessions and 12 years. Almost 19,000 homes were repossessed, as borrowers failed to keep up with mortgage repayments. Despite the recent announcement of from the Bank of England that it would maintain interest rates at 5%, mortgage lenders continue to charge borrowers at a higher interest rate (compare the base rate), in order to offset the increased risk of bad debt form homeowners. It shows that mortgage affordability continues to be a serious issue for homeowners. It also poses a dilemma for policy makers, who desperately don't want stagflation before a forthcoming election. This is having a big impact on consumer confidence and a knock on effect on high street spending.

While huge multinationals can weather the financial storm by closing branches, laying off staff and slashing expenses, the same cannot be necessarily said for small businesses. Cash flow remains the number one priority for struggling and pessimistic business owners. In all likelihood, small businesses will have to whether a recessionary environment over the next year.

All very sad, but they are all caused by the natural cycle of capitalism, boom and bust. Deregulation so that “The Invisible hand” was not interfered with. If you allow capitalists to go hell for leather with other peoples’ money what do you expect?

This show you no nothing about capitalism. Everytime you give the free market freedom from government it creates more competition and is only a benefit to the consumers.
Yes and No Yes it creates competition, which is not always efficient, and No it mainly benefits the shareholders not the consumers. Plus of course there is no such thing as an entirely free market; it’s about as illusory as a Socialist Utopia.

Yes the government runs FBI, CIA and the military. But these government run programs are far from effecient on their spending. Now the government wants to run health care with 300,000,000 plus Americans which will cost more then all of the above combined yearly and you think their wont be rationing.

Then how come we in the UK spend less on care and yet live longer? There already is rationing in the US system, it’s called “Can’t pay then bugger off”, or “I’ll give you a really big bonus if you can disqualify this.

The meaning to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness means you have the freedom for those opportunitys but its up to YOU not the government to make that happen for yourself. So their you go, get off your butt and make it happen on your own.
Do you know you are absolutely right, this is exactly what happened in the UK – in Wales actually – a group of miners got together and decided to sub some money from their wage packets in order to pay medical expenses and it worked very well. So well in fact that their local MP decided it should be nationwide and launched the NHS, so you are quite right but it does not have to be on your own.

Well the average American life span is 78 years old and we have 300,000,000 people. The average life span of the British is 79 years old and you have a little over 61,000,000 million people. Not exactly a fair comparsion. I will take American health care and live to 78 any day of the year.

I have family in London and they would completely disagree with you on the state of health care their. And so would many experts. You are getting your health care on borrowed time.

Prezza uses both (or, rather, a mangled version of each). The NHS, he says, is Britain’s “greatest creation”. Really? Greater than parliamentary democracy? Greater than penicillin? Greater than the discovery of DNA, or the abolition of slavery, or the common law? John, the NHS produces some of the worst health outcomes in the industrialised world. Britain is the Western state where you’d least want to have cancer or a stroke or heart disease. Ours is now a country where thousands of people are killed in hospitals for reasons unrelated to their original condition. If this is our “greatest creation”, Heaven help us.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/9407633/Americans_Dont_copy_the_British_healthcare_system/

I guess we see things different as to what socialism is. America is suffering not because we let capitalism run rampant. Its been smothered in the past and is being smothered even more right now. Just take a look at all the laws for a major corporation to operate and your comment is just silly. Everytime in history capitalism has failed is because government has put its nose into the free market it has no place being. FDR and his policies were responsible for the great depression just like Obama's policies are responsible for the economy now.

You are correct it does not have to be on your own. But as long as government is way clear out of the way.

Well the average American life span is 78 years old and we have 300,000,000 people. The average life span of the British is 79 years old and you have a little over 61,000,000 million people. Not exactly a fair comparsion. I will take American health care and live to 78 any day of the year.

I think it a fair comparison, given that the US economy is the largest in the world, those figures are nothing to boast about.

I have family in London and they would completely disagree with you on the state of health care their.

Well I live here and I could say many more families would disagree with yours. If that were not the case then the NHS would have ceased long ago, under Thatcher’s rule. She tried her best mind you, under her rule she gave tax breaks for health insurance, chronically underfunded it so that waiting lists soared. In the end it was one of the reasons the Tories were cast out of office and stayed out for many years, apart from screwing the economy that is.

And so would many experts.

Which ones?

You are getting your health care on borrowed time.
They have been saying that for the last 60 years, it’s still here.


Prezza uses both (or, rather, a mangled version of each). The NHS, he says, is Britain’s “greatest creation”. Really?
Greater than parliamentary democracy?
It was “Parliamentary democracy” that got us the NHS in the first place.

Greater than penicillin?

What good is penicillin if you can’t afford it, it may just as well have never been invented. Ask anyone in Africa.

Greater than the discovery of DNA
If my son is dying and I have no money, I’m not interested in his genes.,



John, the NHS produces some of the worst health outcomes in the industrialised world. Britain is the Western state where you’d least want to have cancer or a stroke or heart disease. Ours is now a country where thousands of people are killed in hospitals for reasons unrelated to their original condition. If this is our “greatest creation”, Heaven help us.

Daniel Hannan is a right wing Tory of the worst sort, he’s never known poverty or a hard days work in his life. Excuse me if I don’t believe a word that man says. Cameron told him to shut up because what he says is electoral suicide and do you know why? Because the vast majority of people in this country support the NHS. In any case he is a Euro-MP – probably because no constituency here would have him - which in this country means sweet FA.

I guess we see things different as to what socialism is. America is suffering not because we let capitalism run rampant.

Really? Is that why the Chinese own us?

Its been smothered in the past and is being smothered even more right now. Just take a look at all the laws for a major corporation to operate and your comment is just silly.

You would trust yours and you chilrens’ future to Multi-national corporations, over which you have no control yet you don’t trust democracy?
Everytime in history capitalism has failed is because government has put its nose into the free market it has no place being.

Every time in history? When? Where?

FDR and his policies were responsible for the great depression just like Obama's policies are responsible for the economy now.

So FDR caused the 1929 stock market crash?

As I recall it is one G. W. Bush who instigated the Bank Bail out, not that I'm saying he shouldn't, he had very little choice in the matter. Our "Master's of the Universe had totally buggered things up to such an extent we could have had a repeat of the thirties and we all know where that led. Giving credit where credit is due he also did some good work in Africa in the fight against AIDS

Quote :

So FDR caused the 1929 stock market crash?

No his policies prolonged the depression. Most of the world was out of it except the United States. FDR got lucky and WW2 came along.

Obama is doing the same thing on steroids we were promised unemployment would not go above 8 percent it is now over 17 percent. Neil Covuto has already said we would have been out of this recession by now if not for Obamas policies. Obama is destroying America to remake it in his image.

Quote :

As I recall it is one G. W. Bush who instigated the Bank Bail out, not that I'm saying he shouldn't, he had very little choice in the matter. Our "Master's of the Universe had totally buggered things up to such an extent we could have had a repeat of the thirties and we all know where that led. Giving credit where credit is due he also did some good work in Africa in the fight against AIDS

You are correct but also now Obama owns 2 car companies and many banks. We have bankruptcy laws which should have run there course. The banks and car companies should have never been bailed out. When AIG was bailed out it was said they were to big to fail. Well then why wasn't AIG broken up like Ma Bell was. Or what the feds tried to do with Microsoft? Someone dropped the ball on that one.

Quote :

What good is penicillin if you can’t afford it, it may just as well have never been invented. Ask anyone in Africa.

It is cheap here 3 bucks.

Quote :

If my son is dying and I have no money, I’m not interested in his genes.,

Nope but I bet if he needed gene therapy you would be all over it.


[url=Britain's healthcare system 'worse than Estonia's' ]Britain's healthcare system 'worse than Estonia's' [/url]

The Healthcare Commission reports 99 of 394 facilities have admitted failing in areas such as infection control, decontamination of medical equipment and general cleanliness, The Telegraph reports.

British National Health Service There is also an almost unique phenomenon in Britain which relates to the ... a spine problem may have to linger for more than a year to see a specialist. ... Socialized health care systems typically address the best interests of the ...

SoCA wrote:

Well the average American life span is 78 years old and we have 300,000,000 people. The average life span of the British is 79 years old and you have a little over 61,000,000 million people. Not exactly a fair comparsion. I will take American health care and live to 78 any day of the year.

I think it a fair comparison, given that the US economy is the largest in the world, those figures are nothing to boast about.

Okay???

I have family in London and they would completely disagree with you on the state of health care their.

Well I live here and I could say many more families would disagree with yours. If that were not the case then the NHS would have ceased long ago, under Thatcher’s rule. She tried her best mind you, under her rule she gave tax breaks for health insurance, chronically underfunded it so that waiting lists soared. In the end it was one of the reasons the Tories were cast out of office and stayed out for many years, apart from screwing the economy that is.

I have seen your crummy health care first hand how they treat elderly. When my grandmother has to wait 10 months for a simple heart scan that you can get here the SAME DAY! And 8 months into that wait to have her die of a heart attack. NOBODY in America gets turned away for health care treatment but you are expected to pay back the services if you dont have insurance. Im sure my family would rather be in debt have her here now. I have been in debt big time in the past for my wifes medical treatments. And nothing in this world would have me go to your system. You might live a extra year but when your being denied medication and suffering in your older years does not sound like a plus to me to live that extra year.



And so would many experts.

Which ones?

Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html

I could find endless ones like this but you would just say again it is a right wing loony. So believe what you will.


You are getting your health care on borrowed time.
They have been saying that for the last 60 years, it’s still here.

When people are not getting the treatment it borrowed time for sure.

Prezza uses both (or, rather, a mangled version of each). The NHS, he says, is Britain’s “greatest creation”. Really?
Greater than parliamentary democracy?
It was “Parliamentary democracy” that got us the NHS in the first place.

Greater than penicillin?

What good is penicillin if you can’t afford it, it may just as well have never been invented. Ask anyone in Africa.

Nobody here ever gets turned away for treatment. Just expect to pay it back like you should.

Greater than the discovery of DNA
If my son is dying and I have no money, I’m not interested in his genes.,

If your son is dying here their are many foundations here that will not turn any child away for treatment if you cant afford it. This from generous Americans who donate and no stinking government.



John, the NHS produces some of the worst health outcomes in the industrialised world. Britain is the Western state where you’d least want to have cancer or a stroke or heart disease. Ours is now a country where thousands of people are killed in hospitals for reasons unrelated to their original condition. If this is our “greatest creation”, Heaven help us.

Daniel Hannan is a right wing Tory of the worst sort, he’s never known poverty or a hard days work in his life. Excuse me if I don’t believe a word that man says. Cameron told him to shut up because what he says is electoral suicide and do you know why? Because the vast majority of people in this country support the NHS. In any case he is a Euro-MP – probably because no constituency here would have him - which in this country means sweet FA.

I guess we see things different as to what socialism is. America is suffering not because we let capitalism run rampant.

Really? Is that why the Chinese own us?

The Chinese owns us because our government has no control in its spending habits. Paying for welefare, countless millions of illegals, cash for clunkers, 8 thousand dollars for first time home owners, bail outs for companys that we should have let go bankrupt. The list is endless on their screw ups! And yet you live in this fantasy that somehow government medical care will be different.

Its been smothered in the past and is being smothered even more right now. Just take a look at all the laws for a major corporation to operate and your comment is just silly.

You would trust yours and you chilrens’ future to Multi-national corporations, over which you have no control yet you don’t trust democracy?

Yes I would over government control. Because I dont see them ALL as evil like you do.

Everytime in history capitalism has failed is because government has put its nose into the free market it has no place being.

Every time in history? When? Where?

All of Europe.

FDR and his policies were responsible for the great depression just like Obama's policies are responsible for the economy now.

So FDR caused the 1929 stock market crash?

He and other politicians with their socialist agendas and interference in our economy helped start the great depression. And worst of all prolonged it much longer then it should have gone.

As I recall it is one G. W. Bush who instigated the Bank Bail out, not that I'm saying he shouldn't, he had very little choice in the matter. Our "Master's of the Universe had totally buggered things up to such an extent we could have had a repeat of the thirties and we all know where that led. Giving credit where credit is due he also did some good work in Africa in the fight against AIDS

I was no fan of Bush. He was a democrat really just had more balls in defending this country then weak spined liberals. But he should never have given one penny for bailouts. I would have rather suffered a depression and let the market reset itself and get our debt under control. So my children could live a life not worrying about that. Instead we two idiots Obama and Bush who have put our childrens, children in debt.

Well I live here and I could say many more families would disagree with yours. If that were not the case then the NHS would have ceased long ago, under Thatcher’s rule.

Would it really. Does a drunk or addict do whats best for them. When a people are addicted to something its near damn impossible to get them off of it. And thats what the slim ball liberals want. Us addicted and under their control. Corporations can be controlled no matter how powerful they are by the peoples choice not to use what they have. Once government gets their hands firmly entrenched around our necks it takes a revolution to stop the tyranny.

The fact of the matter is that I as a tax paying citizen demand some accountability from lawmakers HERE in this country. I don't care if the people in Cuba or France are happy with their government health care ,I want what is best for this country. No one in their right mind can think that this is a fiscally responsible way to go. They are going to tax tanning salons and eliminate fraud in Medicare to pay for it? Yeah right. This is a way to control the populace while handing out freebies to voting blocks to keep certain politicians in power.

Very good point!

ford plasko wrote:

The fact of the matter is that I as a tax paying citizen demand some accountability from lawmakers HERE in this country. I don't care if the people in Cuba or France are happy with their government health care ,I want what is best for this country. No one in their right mind can think that this is a fiscally responsible way to go. They are going to tax tanning salons and eliminate fraud in Medicare to pay for it? Yeah right. This is a way to control the populace while handing out freebies to voting blocks to keep certain politicians in power.

Good luck with that.

Did I mention something about freebies? Well guess who is exempt from the Healthcare bill, that's right the Amish,for religious reasons.

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20100109/NEWS02/301099964

In the end WHO do you think is going to pay for this? That's right,middle class working families with no affiliations with any group that politicians think is important to their reelection. Meanwhile they keep the average middle class person feeling either powerless or out of the mainstream.

ford plasko wrote:

Did I mention something about freebies? Well guess who is exempt from the Healthcare bill, that's right the Amish,for religious reasons.

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20100109/NEWS02/301099964

In the end WHO do you think is going to pay for this? That's right,middle class working families with no affiliations with any group that politicians think is important to their reelection. Meanwhile they keep the average middle class person feeling either powerless or out of the mainstream.

Can I just declare myself Amish;)