Health care Debate.

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Spending Program What politicians said it would cost What it actually cost
Medicare Part A $9 billion a year by 1990 $67 billion a year
Entire Medicare Program $12 billion a year by 1990 $110 billion a year
Medicare relief to states for hospitals $1 billion a year in 1992 $17 billion a year

* 0 - the number of provisions prohibiting the rationing of health care.
* 0 - the number of government-run entitlement programs that are financially sound over the long-term.
* 10.2 percent - our national unemployment rate, the highest in 26 years.
* 70 - total number of government programs authorized by the bill.
* 1,697 - times the Secretary of Health and Human Services is given authority to determine or define provisions in this bill.
* 2,074 - total pages in this bill.
* 2010 - the year Americans start paying higher taxes to pay for this bill
* 2014 - the year when this bill actually starts most of the major provisions of this bill
* $6.8 million - cost to taxpayers per word
* $8 billion - the total amount of new taxes on Americans who do not buy Washington-defined health care.
* $465 billion - Cuts in Medicare at a time when it faces a $38 trillion unfunded liability to finance more government spending.
* $494 billion - total amount of new taxes in this bill
* $2.5 trillion - the real cost of the bill
* $12 trillion - our total national debt

Man it looks bleak for Americans.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Quote :

Spending Program What politicians said it would cost What it actually cost
Medicare Part A $9 billion a year by 1990 $67 billion a year
Entire Medicare Program $12 billion a year by 1990 $110 billion a year
Medicare relief to states for hospitals $1 billion a year in 1992 $17 billion a year

* 0 - the number of provisions prohibiting the rationing of health care.
* 0 - the number of government-run entitlement programs that are financially sound over the long-term.
* 10.2 percent - our national unemployment rate, the highest in 26 years.
* 70 - total number of government programs authorized by the bill.
* 1,697 - times the Secretary of Health and Human Services is given authority to determine or define provisions in this bill.
* 2,074 - total pages in this bill.
* 2010 - the year Americans start paying higher taxes to pay for this bill
* 2014 - the year when this bill actually starts most of the major provisions of this bill
* $6.8 million - cost to taxpayers per word
* $8 billion - the total amount of new taxes on Americans who do not buy Washington-defined health care.
* $465 billion - Cuts in Medicare at a time when it faces a $38 trillion unfunded liability to finance more government spending.
* $494 billion - total amount of new taxes in this bill
* $2.5 trillion - the real cost of the bill
* $12 trillion - our total national debt

Man it looks bleak for Americans.

Yes it does look bleak. Its frightening to think there is no other place to go on this planet also.

If there was a colony on another planet I would be there.

So the democrats are hooking there girlfriends up. Holy poo and we thought talk about culture of corruption.

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Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus was romantically involved with a former staffer when he recommended her earlier this year to become the next U.S. attorney for Montana, a spokesman said.

The Montana Democrat and his former state office director Melodee Hanes began their relationship in the summer of 2008 after Baucus separated from his wife, Ty Matsdorf told The Associated Press late Friday.

Baucus nominated Hanes for the U.S. attorney post in March. But she later withdrew, saying she had been presented with other opportunities she couldn't pass up.

The Senate leader who's been a major proponent of Democratic health care legislation had submitted six names to a third-party reviewer, who whittled those to Hanes and two others.

Matsdorf said the senator sent the three names to the White House with no ranking to the White House to select a nominee.

Matsdorf said Baucus' relationship with his girlfriend had nothing to do with his decision.

"Senator Baucus recommended each of the three candidates based solely on qualifications, and merit, knowing whichever one the White House selected would serve Montana well," Matsdorf said.

The spokesman said Baucus and Hanes decided during the nomination process that she should withdraw her name because the couple wanted to live together in Washington, which they later did.

Matsdorf declined to say why the senator was just now disclosing the circumstances surrounding the nomination, which was first reported in Roll Call, an online publication that covers Washington politics.

Baucus and his ex-wife Wanda announced last April that they planned to divorce after 25 years of marriage, his second. In a joint statement, they said they had "parted ways amicably and with mutual respect."

Hanes started working for Baucus in 2002 and was his state director before leaving his office earlier this year for a position in the U.S. Department of Justice.

Speaking of health care.I heard a rumor that the health care bill has provisions that will let the government into your bank accounts and automatic withdraw your tax payment.I can't find this anywhere yet,so it maybe just a rumor,but it is a scary thought that they could do this.

• The United State is the only developed nation without some form of universal health care.

• The so-called Public Option is basically the same plan the members of the House and Senate have for themselves and their families

• The proposed cuts to Medicare are to insurance company surcharges not to patient coverage

• The U.S. pays nearly twice as much as for health coverage a percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) [16% and climbing in the US versus 8% to 10% for the rest of the developed nations]

• The proposed bill will end anti-trust exemption for insurance companies

Putting all this with the associated stuff that comes from those opposed to the current Health Care legislation, there are some facts that have to be asked to face about the cost of doing nothing!

If we do nothing:

• By 2016 health care cost will make up more than 50% of our GDP

• More than 1/2 million Americans will die unnecessarily due to lack of adequate coverage

• American businesses will not be able to compete due to the cost of health care

The length of the bill in pages is irrelevant. Only the outcomes are pertinent. In simple human terms this nation must make a basic decision on how much human life is worth versus any number of other priorities. We must decide if a person's ability to get and maintain health insurance is going to continue to be the measure of person's worthiness to get the treatment they need to live.
While we can try to ignore facts like; countries with universal health care have longer lifespans, less illness, and much greater overall satisfaction with their systems. We need to seriously examine the evidence that comes from other sysems. In spite of the LIES about how other countries' health care systems work; 94% of all Canadians, 90% of British, 90% of French who have universal systems would change their systems for anything! ( I have relatives in Canada who are openly afraid of traveling in the U.S. because of fear of what health care they would receive in case of an accident.)

Make no mistake the insurance companies will be trying to play on every fear. Socialized Medicine, Government take over of the system. Government bureaucrats will be making decisions that determine life and death. The only problem with this line of thinking is that right now it's the insurance company bureaucrats that make these decisions.

The truth is this is a battle between entrenched money and special interest versus the need and desires of a vast majority of Americans for access to a well defined, unambiguous, non-retractable health care system. The plain truth is that if a solution is not found and soon, America's economy will crumble under the weight of a system of insurance that has become parasitic.

And yet smiling R every nation now that has HC wants rid of it. There budgets are failing because of it. HC is your responsibility not the governments. There are ways to fix HC and not break the bank. As far as this bill being like what the senate not even close this one myth the left is saying and it is not at all. Matter of fact when an amendment was brought up to but congress on this bill the democrats shot it down big time. Simply this is a disaster. Germany, England and China has warned us not to do this.

Quote :

And yet smiling R every nation now that has HC wants rid of it. There budgets are failing because of it. HC is your responsibility not the governments. There are ways to fix HC and not break the bank. As far as this bill being like what the senate not even close this one myth the left is saying and it is not at all. Matter of fact when an amendment was brought up to but congress on this bill the democrats shot it down big time. Simply this is a disaster. Germany, England and China has warned us not to do this.

Your source with a link. I want to see if you post a link to a American Taliban Party (ATP) propaganda site.

freedom wrote:

...a link to a American Taliban Party (ATP) propaganda site.

You mean this one? http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/ofasplashflag/

SmilingR wrote:

Here are some facts that have been ignored, misrepresented, or simply lied about

• The United State is the only developed nation without some form of universal health care.

• The so-called Public Option is basically the same plan the members of the House and Senate have for themselves and their families

• The proposed cuts to Medicare are to insurance company surcharges not to patient coverage

• The U.S. pays nearly twice as much as for health coverage a percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) [16% and climbing in the US versus 8% to 10% for the rest of the developed nations]

• The proposed bill will end anti-trust exemption for insurance companies

Putting all this with the associated stuff that comes from those opposed to the current Health Care legislation, there are some facts that have to be asked to face about the cost of doing nothing!

If we do nothing:

• By 2016 health care cost will make up more than 50% of our GDP

• More than 1/2 million Americans will die unnecessarily due to lack of adequate coverage

• American businesses will not be able to compete due to the cost of health care

The length of the bill in pages is irrelevant. Only the outcomes are pertinent. In simple human terms this nation must make a basic decision on how much human life is worth versus any number of other priorities. We must decide if a person's ability to get and maintain health insurance is going to continue to be the measure of person's worthiness to get the treatment they need to live.
While we can try to ignore facts like; countries with universal health care have longer lifespans, less illness, and much greater overall satisfaction with their systems. We need to seriously examine the evidence that comes from other sysems. In spite of the LIES about how other countries' health care systems work; 94% of all Canadians, 90% of British, 90% of French who have universal systems would change their systems for anything! ( I have relatives in Canada who are openly afraid of traveling in the U.S. because of fear of what health care they would receive in case of an accident.)

Make no mistake the insurance companies will be trying to play on every fear. Socialized Medicine, Government take over of the system. Government bureaucrats will be making decisions that determine life and death. The only problem with this line of thinking is that right now it's the insurance company bureaucrats that make these decisions.

The truth is this is a battle between entrenched money and special interest versus the need and desires of a vast majority of Americans for access to a well defined, unambiguous, non-retractable health care system. The plain truth is that if a solution is not found and soon, America's economy will crumble under the weight of a system of insurance that has become parasitic.

1. And ALL other nations are either rationing their care or going bankrupt. Just ask my grandma who lived in London. Thats right you cant she died because of rationing. Had to wait 10 months for a simple heart scan. To only die of a heart attack 8 months into the wait. Government should have no part of this. Get back to me when they fix social security, medicade, medicare, welefare, our 15 trillion dollar debt, welefare, stimulas fraud, cash for clunkers that cost Americans 22,000 dollars for every car sold, DMV and every other failure of a government plan and you want us to trust them with our health.

2. The public option is NOTHING like their plan! They have made it a point in the bill to be able to not have to use Obama care.

3. You ever think one of the reasons we pay more is because of to much government intervention allready. Please name ANY government program that runs effeciently that effects millions of Americans. And you ever think we seem to be the only country that is willing to spend billions of extra dollars to make sure our elderly live longer.

4. Will end anti trust for insurance?? I have some land to sell you in a special place also.

5. NOBODY on the conservative side is saying do nothing. Thats the lies you guys always seem to tell. The Republicans have tried on several attempts to put forth a plan and speak with the president who said he has a open door policy with anyone. To only be ignored. Its about power and control and nothing to do with Americans health.

6. Again healthcare costs are because of to much government intervention.

7. Even if thats true which its not because nobody in this country gets turned away for treatment. Imagine how many will really die under Obama care. Its allready started with government recomendation to have breast exams at fifty instead of forty years old. The death panels have allready begun.

8. That statistic you write about has long been proven to be slanted and wrong.
http://smartgirlnation.com/2009/06/popular-ranking-unfairly-misrepresents-the-us-health-care-system/
I have more if you need it. I tell you what the next time you have cancer why dont you go to Costa Rica. They supposedly have better healthcare then us. Im betting even if you lived their and you had a choice your first choice would be America. And you want to ruin the best healthcare in the world so you can have somebody take care of you because you cant do it on your own.

9. Their playing on fears of the truth. All that you mentioned is exactly that government socialism.

10. The truth is this a battle for our freedoms and people who want control of it. PERIOD!

It is over America. We are now the United States of Amerika and the democrats have said frack you to the majority of Americans. All I have to say is you people that voted these jerks in great job way to go hope you are proud of yourselves. The sad thing is a lot of them will not admit they voted those ruling class people in.

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WASHINGTON - With a self-imposed Christmas deadline at stake, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid engineered a last-minute compromise that has won the support of the lone Democratic holdout and clinched the required 60 votes to pass a sweeping overhaul of the U.S. health care system.

Democratic leaders offered Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska a deal similar to the $300 million in Medicaid aid Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana got for her support.

When asked about this, Sen. Kent Conrad, a key Democratic leader involved in the negotiations with Nelson, said, "Oh, it'll be much more."

The conservative Nebraska Democrat will make an announcement later Saturday. Marathon negotiations with the White House and Senate Democratic leaders produced fresh concessions that will mean additional abortion restrictions in the legislation.

It is over America. Our founding fathers are rolling over in there graves.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

It is over America. Our founding fathers are rolling over in there graves.

Im not giving up hope yet. It does not go into effect for 4 years I believe. 2010 and 2012 election is going to be a sweeping change in the ballot box. We still have a chance to roll this stuff back. If not this country needs to think about a more radical change like our founding fathers did.

We would need a veto proof majority. 67 votes in the senate good luck with that.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

We would need a veto proof majority. 67 votes in the senate good luck with that.

And there are many things in the bill that are unconstituional. There is talk from several groups to take this to the courts. Im ready to donate money to these groups if need be. Im not giving up until the last day.

ssvs04 wrote:

And there are many things in the bill that are unconstituional. There is talk from several groups to take this to the courts. Im ready to donate money to these groups if need be. Im not giving up until the last day.

We've got a president, income taxes, draft registration, etc, etc, etc that are all unconstitutional. Nobody did/does anything about them and they are bigger issues.

eber322 wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

And there are many things in the bill that are unconstituional. There is talk from several groups to take this to the courts. Im ready to donate money to these groups if need be. Im not giving up until the last day.

We've got a president, income taxes, draft registration, etc, etc, etc that are all unconstitutional. Nobody did/does anything about them and they are bigger issues.

The constitution means nothing to the people in charge. And I say that about both sides. That argument is only used when the party that is in the minority doesn't get their way.

I found this little gem of a website.


http://goooh.com/home.aspx

eber322 wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

And there are many things in the bill that are unconstituional. There is talk from several groups to take this to the courts. Im ready to donate money to these groups if need be. Im not giving up until the last day.

We've got a president, income taxes, draft registration, etc, etc, etc that are all unconstitutional. Nobody did/does anything about them and they are bigger issues.

I would have to disagree very strongly that those issues are bigger than health care. If government has control of our health its game over for America and our rights. This is a much bigger issue for American people and im convinced they are not just going to roll over this time. They see their future and their childrens future and they will fight back.

ssvs04 wrote:

eber322 wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

And there are many things in the bill that are unconstituional. There is talk from several groups to take this to the courts. Im ready to donate money to these groups if need be. Im not giving up until the last day.

We've got a president, income taxes, draft registration, etc, etc, etc that are all unconstitutional. Nobody did/does anything about them and they are bigger issues.

I would have to disagree very strongly that those issues are bigger than health care. If government has control of our health its game over for America and our rights. This is a much bigger issue for American people and im convinced they are not just going to roll over this time. They see their future and their childrens future and they will fight back.

Problem is you have people like Truth, Freedom, Smiling R that are totally for this poo.

[/quote]Problem is you have people like Truth, Freedom, Smiling R that are totally for this poo.[/quote]

We have 60 percent of Americans not wanting this nightmare. Out of the 40 percent you have left 20 percent just have no clue as to what is going on and just dont understand free health care is not free. And health care will go down the tubes if government is involved. And what your left with is the minority wacko crazy people who dont live in the real world and just ignore the facts that government health care is mistake.

Sadly right now that 20 percent of wacko crazy people are running and ruining this country.

ssvs04 wrote:

Problem is you have people like Truth, Freedom, Smiling R that are totally for this poo.[/quote]

We have 60 percent of Americans not wanting this nightmare. Out of the 40 percent you have left 20 percent just have no clue as to what is going on and just dont understand free health care is not free. And health care will go down the tubes if government is involved. And what your left with is the minority wacko crazy people who dont live in the real world and just ignore the facts that government health care is mistake.

Sadly right now that 20 percent of wacko crazy people are running and ruining this country.[/quote]

So when exactly did democracy die in this country?

steve2112 wrote:

So when exactly did democracy die in this country?

A long time ago, about the same time the gold standard was done away with.

Well I guess the end of America is tonight.

Harry Reid is an asshole. He know says health care is a right. That is not a right the government is fracking us over.