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 Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?

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Skycastle

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PostSubject: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:23 pm

Here's an article of mine which was published July 12, 2014.

"GUEST COLUMN: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?"
http://gazette.com/guest-column-constitutional-government-is-it-really-present-in-our-country/article/1524759

If you asked average Americans if they were living under constitutional government, most would say yes. After all, our legislators all claim to obey the U.S. Constitution, and we have a Supreme Court that is supposed to uphold it.

But to really answer the question, the term must first be defined.

What is constitutional government?

The answer, in short, is "government which obeys the Constitution."

But how can we know if government is obeying it?

That's the million-dollar question, and many tricks, evasions, half-truths and lies have been used to obscure the answer. So let's try to find the truth.

To begin, the U.S. Constitution created the federal government. It is the covenant between We The People and our government, and it is the supreme law of the land, standing above the president, Congress and the Supreme Court. They must bow to it - not it to them. To help insure that they do, the president and all members of Congress are required to take an oath of office to uphold the Constitution. As the supreme law of the land, all federal laws must conform to it.

Q: What form of government does the Constitution establish?

Our Founding Fathers feared an all-powerful central government, so they gave us a Constitution which severely limited its power in order to protect us.

It establishes a limited federal government, with few powers delegated (given) to it. These powers are specified in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, and in the Amendments.

All powers not given to the federal government are reserved to the states and the people, and the Ninth and Tenth Amendments were added to make that critical fact very clear. When the government makes any law which is outside of its delegated powers, it is usurping power and violating the Constitution. Such laws are illegal, although the concept of illegal laws can be a brain twister. Here are some relevant quotes:

"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite."
- James Madison, aptly called the Father of the Constitution.

"Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force."
- Thomas Jefferson

"All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution, are null and void."
- Chief Justice Marshall, U.S. Supreme Court

Q: What's the situation today?

Today we have exactly what our Founding Fathers feared: a federal government that has broken out of its constitutional cage, and is growing without limit in power and control over our lives.

Some examples of illegal agencies and laws which the corruptocrats in Washington, D.C., have foisted upon us are: Department of Education, Environmental Protection Agency, Drug Enforcement Agency, DOE, ATF, HUD, NLRB, OSHA, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, drugs laws, crime laws, gun control laws, and the latest atrocity - Obamacare.

It's been estimated that perhaps half of federal laws and agencies are unconstitutional. For an in-depth analysis of our plight, read Judge Andrew Napolitano's excellent book, "The Constitution in Exile."

Q: How did they get away with that?

The power-grabbers in government don't want their power limited, and so they came up with some clever methods to evade constitutional intent: the "commerce clause," the "general welfare clause," the "necessary and proper clause," and the idea that the Constitution is a "living document."

None of these justify the wholesale abandonment of constitutional limits which we have today, but they're sufficient to confuse enough people to get away with it. What we have is essentially an end-run around the Constitution, without the knowledge of most Americans.

Q: What's the solution?

What we need is a return to "original intent," which means that congress, the president, and the supreme court must obey the original intent of the Constitution and the men who created it.

Unfortunately, that's the last thing our lawless lawmakers want.

What we're living under today is not constitutional government, but a sham, a shadow, a hollowed-out shell of what was once our legal government. It could accurately be called a federal regime, ruled by power-hungry politicians who ignore and subvert the Constitution with almost every vote. Only a grass-roots awakening of the American people can bring our freedom back.

-

Alexander Daube is a freelance writer and an area coordinator for the Fully Informed Jury Association. He lives in Colorado Springs with his wife, Julie.
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:45 am

Quote :
Our Founding Fathers feared an all-powerful central government, so they gave us a Constitution which severely limited its power in order to protect us.

Not at all true. They feared Americans. It's a fact most of the Founding Fathers(FF) were against the Boston Tea Party. It was the Americans that did it anyway. One of them a FF himself (Samuel Adams)

The majority of the FF did not believe the path to independence, was through an act of Treason. That means you'll never be loyal to anyone or anything, period. True democracy requires discipline of the people. Americans had none. They will do whatever they want, whenever they want to. That's anarchy.

So in forming the government, they did the best they could at the time to ensure the "true power" always remained with "the people". But they knew it would never work. And they were right.

It started with what we now call the "Bill of Rights". Americans did not believe the government and Constitution as written by the FF was "good enough". They felt they needed more power. It has never stopped.

Amercans in general refuse to see that "we the people" that wanted freedom, are in fact the same ones that took it from us. They are loyal to nothing or anybody and think only of themselves.

That is true of anybody elected into a public office since the day I was born. Before my family even emigrated to this nation.

Why blame the government, when it's the people themselves at fault?
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:54 am

We ceased to be a Constitutional Government at the same time we ceased to be a Union and a Republic. During the Civil War, the Union army not only defeated the Confederacy, they also defeated the Union. That war resulted in the federal government seizing all power except what it lets the states hold. Exactly the opposite of what the Constitution intended. The states ceased to be States and merely became territories/provinces to the fed. The Union ceased to be a Union of States, and became a State unto itself while the states were no longer states at all other than in name.

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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:47 pm

Bandit wrote:
Quote :
Our Founding Fathers feared an all-powerful central government, so they gave us a Constitution which severely limited its power in order to protect us.

Not at all true.

Really? I gave you 3 quotes about limited federal power from 2 Founding Fathers and one Chief Justice of the Supreme Court; I posted where the federal delegated powers were listed in the Constitution (Article one, Section eight), and I mentioned the 9th & 10th Amendments. Did you miss all that? How could you possible construe  that as allowing unlimited power to the feds?
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:58 pm

eber322 wrote:
We ceased to be a Constitutional Government at the same time we ceased to be a Union and a Republic. During the Civil War, the Union army not only defeated the Confederacy, they also defeated the Union. That war resulted in the federal government seizing all power except what it lets the states hold. Exactly the opposite of what the Constitution intended. The states ceased to be States and merely became territories/provinces to the fed. The Union ceased to be a Union of States, and became a State unto itself while the states were no longer states at all other than in name.

When the Union won the Civil War, it didn't abolish the Constitution. The original intent didn't change, nor did the delegated powers (Article one Section eight), nor did the 9th & 10th Amendments, all of which severely limit federal power. So the Constitution legally continued to be the law of the land. It took over 200 years of unconstitutional supreme court decisions to scuttle the Constitution and trample our freedoms. But they're still usurping power illegally, because SCOTUS was never given power to change the intent or meaning of the Constitution, and all such decisions are a violation of the Constitution, making them illegal. The Constitution hasn't changed, but unfortunately the American people have. Ignorance, apathy, idiocy, and laziness have taken hold on a frightening scale in this sick nation, so few people know or care what has happened. Many love it,because it opens the door for socialism. With this degree of stupidity ruling people's votes, it's unlikely that we'll ever recover the Constitution or our freedoms. Ignorance can destroy a nation, as it is destroying ours.
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:13 pm

Skycastle wrote:
When the Union won the Civil War, it didn't abolish the Constitution.

It wasn't abolished no. Just had a bunch of illegally ratified amendments added to consolidate power in the fed, then pretty much ignored. There was no need to abolish it when the fed controls how and when it is ever used.

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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:46 pm

Skycastle wrote:

Really? I gave you 3 quotes about limited federal power from 2 Founding Fathers and one Chief Justice of the Supreme Court; I posted where the federal delegated powers were listed in the Constitution (Article one, Section eight), and I mentioned the 9th & 10th Amendments. Did you miss all that? How could you possible construe  that as allowing unlimited power to the feds?

Because most of the FF wanted more power. The FF were split into two groups. They all started off as Confederalists, but at the mere mention of replacing the Articles of The Confederation to create a more powerful federal government, they split. The other group led by Samuel Adams called themselves Anti-Federalists.

They were against the Constitution in the first place because it gave them (Federal government) too much power and wasn't needed. They didn't need a centralized government or a Constitution granting them even more power. But they lost.

There's more that followed, but seriously, you won't even consider it, so why bother?
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:04 pm

eber322 wrote:
Skycastle wrote:
When the Union won the Civil War, it didn't abolish the Constitution.

It wasn't abolished no. Just had a bunch of illegally ratified amendments added to consolidate power in the fed, then pretty much ignored. There was no need to abolish it when the fed controls how and when it is ever used.

To which amendments are you referring?
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:35 pm

Bandit wrote:
Skycastle wrote:

Really? I gave you 3 quotes about limited federal power from 2 Founding Fathers and one Chief Justice of the Supreme Court; I posted where the federal delegated powers were listed in the Constitution (Article one, Section eight), and I mentioned the 9th & 10th Amendments. Did you miss all that? How could you possible construe  that as allowing unlimited power to the feds?

Because most of the FF wanted more power. The FF were split into two groups. They all started off as Confederalists, but at the mere mention of replacing the Articles of The Confederation to create a more powerful federal government, they split. The other group led by Samuel Adams called themselves Anti-Federalists.
They were against the Constitution in the first place because it gave them (Federal government) too much power and wasn't needed. They didn't need a centralized government or a Constitution granting them even more power. But they lost.
There's more that followed, but seriously, you won't even consider it, so why bother?

Sure I'll consider it. What you're saying is that many FFs wanted to keep the AOC, while many others wanted a new Constitution which gave more power to the federal government. I'll admit that, because it's true. However, what I'm saying is that the new Constitution didn't give the federal government as much power as you think. It severely limited federal power in the form of specified, delegated powers. You can read them in Article 1, Section 8 (I've posted it at the end). Those were the only powers given to the feds, and all other powers and freedoms (the VAST majority of them, most unspecified) remained with the states and the people, as the 9th & 10th Amendments made perfectly clear. That hasn't changed even today:

Amendment  9
“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

Amendment 10
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

The problem is the feds are no longer obeying the Constitution or abiding by Constitutional limits to their power. They've illegally usurped many powers which the Constitution denies them, including environmental, housing, medical, personal insurance, crime, and drug powers. Constitutionally speaking, the feds have become lawless. THAT'S the problem which is destroying our nation, because just about all our national ills flow from that.

Article 1, Section 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.”
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:21 am

I know what the Constitution and Amendments say well, as do my children. We all sacrificed a great deal for it, and suffered a great loss. So please stop quoting it to me. I will not ask you again.

Quote :
Sure I'll consider it. What you're saying is that many FFs wanted to keep the AOC, while many others wanted a new Constitution which gave more power to the federal government. I'll admit that, because it's true. However, what I'm saying is that the new Constitution didn't give the federal government as much power as you think

It doesn't matter what I think. All I posted is historical fact. Anyway, as history played out, the reason Adams was so against a Constitution was because of what started what became the Revolution. The only constitution known at the time, was Britain's. The British were violating the constitution by the actions against the colonists. That lead to the revolution.

Keep in mind, the Boston massacre as well as Boston Tea Party already happened, so the colonists felt the only was out of the "mess" was for a declared revolution. If Britain would violate their own constitution, they had no other option.

historical fact or not?
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:51 pm

Bandit, there's no need to get hot under the collar just because I quoted the Constitution to you. If you know it so well, then why didn't you agree with my article, which was true? Instead, you wrote:
“Not at all true.”

In fact, it is true. Most of our Founding Fathers feared an all-powerful central government in our nation. Some wanted to keep the AOC in force, while others wanted a stronger federal government than the AOC allowed for– but still a LIMITED one. And the new Constitution did indeed give LIMITED, DELEGATED powers to the federal government. Do you seriously disagree with that? That was the main point of my article. BTW, if they had wanted to allow the new central government to have unlimited power, it would have been VERY easy for them to do so. But they didn't. Do you get that?
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:08 pm

Skycastle wrote:
Most of our Founding Fathers feared an all-powerful central government in our nation. Some wanted to keep the AOC in force, while others wanted a stronger federal government than the AOC allowed for– but still a LIMITED one. And the new Constitution did indeed give LIMITED, DELEGATED powers to the federal government. Do you seriously disagree with that? That was the main point of my article. BTW, if they had wanted to allow the new central government to have unlimited power, it would have been VERY easy for them to do so. But they didn't. Do you get that?

You're absolutely correct on that. In fact many of them never wanted to form a union, but preferred the idea of keeping the nations, aka states, separate. They only agreed to a union because they knew they'd be to weak to oppose the British, or others, separately. That's why all most all the powers they did give to the federal government were limited to dealing with foreign diplomacy and national defense. That's also why the Constitution called for keeping the purse strings with the states, so as a next to last resort the states could oppose the Fed by withholding tax funds from them.

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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:34 am

Again, what I have posted is historical fact. What you are posting is an opinion. I care less who agrees with it. It still does not, nor can it, change the historical facts. Also as I stated before, you won't even consider it. You won't even say if my last post is historical fact or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:54 pm

Bandit, you're very confusing. You brought up so many issues which had nothing to do with my article that it's hard to understand where your disagreement is. You ranted a lot, but didn't deal much with what I wrote, which was this: “Our Founding Fathers feared an all-powerful central government, so they gave us a Constitution which severely limited its power in order to protect us.”

So, are you saying that our FFs DIDN'T fear an all powerful central government? You wrote: “So in forming the government, they did the best they could at the time to ensure the "true power" always remained with "the people". But they knew it would never work.”
You seem to be agreeing with me here. If the FFs gave us a constitution which let true power remain with the people, that means they LIMITED federal power, which was my contention from the beginning. As to whether they thought it would work, there may have been some doubt. After leaving the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin was asked what sort of government the delegates had created. He answered: "A republic, if you can keep it." So they left it up to us to protect the Constitution and the form of government it created. Obviously, we've failed, as should have been clear from my article.

You wrote: “The only constitution known at the time, was Britain's. The British were violating the constitution by the actions against the colonists. That lead to the revolution.”
How can you call that historical fact? Maybe that was a factor in some of the colonists' minds, but maybe many more were sick of the oppressive taxation and control. So what?  My article didn't deal with the motives of the colonists which led to the war, so it's beside the point. I wish you'd just stick to the points of my article so we can have a productive discussion. Perhaps you could try to directly answer this question:

*** Was our Constitution designed to limit federal power? ***
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:32 pm

[quote="Bandit"]I know what the Constitution and Amendments say well, as do my children. We all sacrificed a great deal for it, and suffered a great loss.[quote]

Bandit, maybe you could explain how you and your family " sacrificed a great deal ...and suffered a great loss" for the Constitution?
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:10 pm

So now Bandit is gone?
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:35 pm

It's been a few weeks now since he's posted.

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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:27 pm

No
So now it's just me and you?
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:47 pm

Looks that way.

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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:31 pm

Years ago I think it was Bandit, along with some other intensely argumentative Leftists, who annoyed me so much that I left the discussions. Do you think he drove others away as well?
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:03 am

I don't know. I know we have had quite a few posters here over the years that have all just stopped posting. I always figured that was because there wasn't much activity so they drifted away. And of course as that happened, the activity went down so more drifted away. At one point the site was doing ok, but it's as if we never quite made it over the ridge to where we'd have sustained activity. Part of that is probably because Styfy shut down their forums, so POV could no longer steer people this way from there.

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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:16 pm

So what now? When this site shuts down, where will you go?
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PostSubject: Re: Constitutional government - is it really present in our country?    Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:24 pm

I have no idea. If this shuts down... I really don't know. I don't really post anywhere else anymore.

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