Gripe, gripe, gripe

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

Aside from me, who's really involved with our government, at every level? Some level? Any level?

I don't mean voting, but really involved. Voting is just the end of the process. After the vote, the process starts anew, with evaluation.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

I used to be. Now I am free.

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: I used to be. Now I am free.

What do you mean?

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

When I was in the Navy.

Subject: Re: Gripe, gripe, gripe Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:43 pm

I think what bandit means is working for the election of people who share our views and can effect change instead of just posting on the internet.

I did some door knocking for Obama in the last election. I wish I could have done more but it turns out it was enough. I've given some thought to running for office but with the current climate and the way campaign financing is I'm not sure I'd have much of a chance.

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Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: When I was in the Navy.

I can relate to that. We gave up many of our rights under the US Constitution, just to defend it. But we would defend it from all enemies, foreign and domestic. We know first hand, freedom isn't free. It comes at great cost, something not even our founding fathers could have imagined.

So at what point does it become too expensive for you Vulcan? It's going to cost you, so when are you willing to give it up?

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Samurai wrote:: I think what bandit means is working for the election of people who share our views and can effect change instead of just posting on the internet.

Nope. I mean "We the people".

That's who is running the nation, or used to be. Everybody answers to "We the People".

Unless of course, the people become silent, and let the government run itself. Then it's "Somebody must make the government accountable".

But of course, Americans are too busy being free, to do so.

Not me. When I retired, the first thing I did was register to vote. Next was to find out who is who at the county, city, state and federal level, so I could assert my authority, as a registered voter, over them.

Next was to get involved in all the issues.

Now if all of this sounds like a lot of work, it is. But as I said, freedom isn't free. Sooner or later, you will have to work/fight for it.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

How are you "involved in all the issues," Bandit?

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

ilaugh wrote:: How are you "involved in all the issues," Bandit?

Communication. The government has made it easy. I can see the House, Senate and General Assembly of my state as well as the House, Senate and Congress of my nation. I see all pending legislature, and all that was rejected and why. I see every rewrite of every bill considered. I know when new legislation is introduced. I see how everybody voted on any given bill. I see all scheduled sessions/meetings, and notice of any emergency sessions/meetings.

I know what pertains to me, and what does not.

Currently I have 2 Congressional's pending, and 3 constituent advocates running down information packets for me.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

Bandit wrote:

ilaugh wrote:: How are you "involved in all the issues," Bandit?

Communication. The government has made it easy. I can see the House, Senate and General Assembly of my state as well as the House, Senate and Congress of my nation. I see all pending legislature, and all that was rejected and why. I see every rewrite of every bill considered. I know when new legislation is introduced. I see how everybody voted on any given bill. I see all scheduled sessions/meetings, and notice of any emergency sessions/meetings.

I know what pertains to me, and what does not.

Currently I have 2 Congressional's pending, and 3 constituent advocates running down information packets for me.

Ewwwwwwwwwww reading legislation. Your eyes must hurt.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

Bandit wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: When I was in the Navy.

I can relate to that. We gave up many of our rights under the US Constitution, just to defend it. But we would defend it from all enemies, foreign and domestic. We know first hand, freedom isn't free. It comes at great cost, something not even our founding fathers could have imagined.

So at what point does it become too expensive for you Vulcan? It's going to cost you, so when are you willing to give it up?

Agreed. It does come at a great cost. But the question is when does the government take those freedoms away? Are we to let them go into our checking accounts? Phones? Emails? What is next? Camera's in everyone's house? You I and know first hand what the uniform services go through. You and I are from a age of the cold war. We knew what true fear was.

But the government could just make the phone companies keep those records for 25 years. Who is to say down the road they do not use that to throw people in jail just for speaking out against the government. Now if if the government checks this site out big deal. It is a public forum. I have no problem with facebook or twitter if you are that dumb to use those things.

Every program in a government is great. Until they use it against their people. What is next tracking your mail putting GPS on your car? Microphones in your house? Camera's in your house? Oh I can see some government employ now selling videos of you and your wife. I know their is a joke. But you get my drift.

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: Agreed. It does come at a great cost. But the question is when does the government take those freedoms away? Are we to let them go into our checking accounts? Phones? Emails? What is next? Camera's in everyone's house? You I and know first hand what the uniform services go through. You and I are from a age of the could war. We knew what true fear was.

But the government could just make the phone companies keep those records for 25 years. Who is to say down the road they do not use that to throw people in jail just for speaking out against the government. Now if if the government checks this site out big deal. It is a public forum. I have no problem with facebook or twitter if you are that dumb to use those things.

Every program in a government is great. Until they use it against their people. What is next tracking your mail putting GPS on your car? Microphones in your house? Camera's in your house? Oh I can see some government employ now selling videos of you and your wife. I know their is a joke. But you get my drift.

First and foremost, America gave all their privacy away. The people, not the government. This can be documented back to 1965 with the FOIA. This was followed by the Privacy Act of 1974, but it was already too late.

Americans have way too much freedom for their own good. Worse, in demanding information from the government, it cost everybody their privacy. This affects only Americans mind you.

I'm not worried about the government. The people are a much bigger threat. That threat is what the government is trying to address.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Bandit wrote:

ilaugh wrote:: How are you "involved in all the issues," Bandit?

Communication. The government has made it easy. I can see the House, Senate and General Assembly of my state as well as the House, Senate and Congress of my nation. I see all pending legislature, and all that was rejected and why. I see every rewrite of every bill considered. I know when new legislation is introduced. I see how everybody voted on any given bill. I see all scheduled sessions/meetings, and notice of any emergency sessions/meetings.

I know what pertains to me, and what does not.

Currently I have 2 Congressional's pending, and 3 constituent advocates running down information packets for me.

Is this just to better your own personal knowledge, to make wiser, more informed decisions, or are you active in the community as well?

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

ilaugh wrote:: Is this just to better your own personal knowledge, to make wiser, more informed decisions, or are you active in the community as well?

All of the above, and absolutely active in the Community. Although admittedly, I'm backing off that. For my age group (50's-60's) we're in the recruitment phase. It's time to pass the torch. That in itself, is another challenge.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

Americans have way too much freedom for their own good. wrote:

I don't even know how to answer that one. So who decides how much freedom you get? Saddam Hussien? Um Hitler? Pol Pot? Mao? Sorry but I trust no one with my freedom but me.

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Bandit wrote:

ilaugh wrote:: Is this just to better your own personal knowledge, to make wiser, more informed decisions, or are you active in the community as well?

All of the above, and absolutely active in the Community. Although admittedly, I'm backing off that. For my age group (50's-60's) we're in the recruitment phase. It's time to pass the torch. That in itself, is another challenge.

I try to keep up on the issues as best I can, and do at least a some research on them. I also look into whoever is on an election ballot to some extent. If I'm unfamiliar with someone, say a judge for instance, then I leave it blank, but I'm not all that active in politics in my community.

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Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: I don't even know how to answer that one. So who decides how much freedom you get? Saddam Hussien? Um Hitler? Pol Pot? Mao? Sorry but I trust no one with my freedom but me.

It wasn't a question, it was a statement. And ultimately, we decide how much freedom you get. Again, "we" refers to the people. We don't care if you trust us or not. We make the laws.

I take my civic duties and responsibilities, very seriously. And while I would love to say we please everybody all the time, it isn't true, because it isn't possible. We come up with the best possible solution we can, that the majority will agree to.

You once tried to quote Ben Franklin to me. This is what he actually wrote: “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

Easy check. Are you free? I know I am. So I have given up nothing.

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

ilaugh wrote:: I try to keep up on the issues as best I can, and do at least a some research on them. I also look into whoever is on an election ballot to some extent. If I'm unfamiliar with someone, say a judge for instance, then I leave it blank, but I'm not all that active in politics in my community.

Trust me, nobody is handing out "report cards" on involvement. You are, or are not. By default, everybody has the right to gripe about our government, even if you don't vote. But nobody is going to hear you, vote or not.

I've worked too hard and sacrificed too much, to get what little I have. I'll be damned if I'm not heard.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

Bandit wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: I don't even know how to answer that one. So who decides how much freedom you get? Saddam Hussien? Um Hitler? Pol Pot? Mao? Sorry but I trust no one with my freedom but me.

It wasn't a question, it was a statement. And ultimately, we decide how much freedom you get. Again, "we" refers to the people. We don't care if you trust us or not. We make the laws.

I take my civic duties and responsibilities, very seriously. And while I would love to say we please everybody all the time, it isn't true, because it isn't possible. We come up with the best possible solution we can, that the majority will agree to.

You once tried to quote Ben Franklin to me. This is what he actually wrote: “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

Easy check. Are you free? I know I am. So I have given up nothing.

I know what Ben Franklin wrote. But the question still remains. How much freedom to you give up.

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: But the question still remains. How much freedom to you give up.

That isn't the question. America refuses to even compromise. If you recall just after 9-11, the first freedom lost, was foreign travel. That went over well, now didn't it?

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Bandit wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: But the question still remains. How much freedom to you give up.

That isn't the question. America refuses to even compromise. If you recall just after 9-11, the first freedom lost, was foreign travel. That went over well, now didn't it?

It is sad that you need a passport to get back into the United States if you go to Canada now. That is sad. I guess you could fly to Mexico from Canada and cross the boarder there.

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Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: It is sad that you need a passport to get back into the United States if you go to Canada now. That is sad. I guess you could fly to Mexico from Canada and cross the boarder there.

No Vulcan, you cannot. You cannot legally get into the US by air, land or sea without a passport. How is it you missed this? I'll bet because it really doesn't apply to you, does it?

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

Bandit wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: It is sad that you need a passport to get back into the United States if you go to Canada now. That is sad. I guess you could fly to Mexico from Canada and cross the boarder there.

No Vulcan, you cannot. You cannot legally get into the US by air, land or sea without a passport. How is it you missed this? I'll bet because it really doesn't apply to you, does it?

You did not get my joke. But let me clear it up. We have millions and millions of illegal aliens crossing the border. Now republican and democrats want to make them legal. So now they might get more rights then the average American citizen. I just wonder if the American Government would be as nice to an American citizen for crossing the border illegally?

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: You did not get my joke. But let me clear it up. We have millions and millions of illegal aliens crossing the border. Now republican and democrats want to make them legal. So now they might get more rights then the average American citizen. I just wonder if the American Government would be as nice to an American citizen for crossing the border illegally?

You post bunk like this, and mock me for reading legislature before it becomes law?

Around 20+ or so years ago, America was in a bind. Americans were so fat and happy, nobody wanted to put in a hard days work for minimum wage. This was going to be catastrophic to the agricultural industry. As in past times, Mexicans and other immigrants were used to compensate. This caused drastic changes to both labor laws and immigration laws. As it pertained to immigrant workers, the US tracked them entering, and their home nation was supposed to track them returning.

That didn't happen. Instead, when the workers visa expired, the worker stayed. The workers home nation didn't report it, nor did the American farmers that hired them. Instead, now that labor laws no longer applied, the Farmers could pay them well BELOW minimum wage, under threat of deportation. So essentially, they're slave labor. They can't afford to get deported. If they do, they'll never be allowed in again, or if they were working towards citizenship, they just lost it.

While the government has no idea it has millions of now undocumented workers within it's borders, it is still allowing workers to cross. But there becomes an issue. For the millions of documented workers, there isn't much work. How can this be? Where did all the workers come from?

By the time the government figured it out, it was a train wreck. Presidents Fox and Bush promised to fix the mess back in 2001, but then 9-11 happened.

Best guesses were it was going to be along the same lines as the Immigration Reform and Control act of 1986.

So there were never millions and millions of illegals crossing the border. To be sure, some of the immigrants here actually did cross illegally, but not as many as people think. Outside of narcotic trafficking, an illegal crossing is an act of desperation. Most never survive the attempt.

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Reagan's bill said make them legal first and build a fence second correct? Now the democrats then defunded the fence. But again my question is this. If you are a United States Citizen are in Mexico and oops I forgot to get a passport now cannot come back into the United States would the government be so nice?

Also they said 3 million illegals when Reagan was president it turned out to be 6.