Kid fights back against school ban on prayer

Like many schools, run by the hippie-liberal Christian haters, his school banned prayer. So this valedictorian dropped his "preapproved" speech and said the Lords Prayer. I did notice the two female teachers/board members (the longer haired blonde and the chubby brunette next to her) in the middle of the stage behind him smiled when he did it. The rest didn't seem to happy, to bad the crowd loved it.

Hippies hated liberal Christians? Were they worse than Conservative or Moderate Christians?

There, I fixed what confused you Bandit.

Standing in front of a crowd and proving himself to be a lying, hypocritical, rude, disobedient and disrespectful person. And they wonder why Christians have a bad reputation.

"This is what God wanted me to do"


Suuure he did.

I am all for bucking the system. Good for the kid. What are they going to do to him? He already graduated. If it makes the establishment mad then go for it.

Bandit wrote:

Standing in front of a crowd and proving himself to be a lying, hypocritical, rude, disobedient and disrespectful person. And they wonder why Christians have a bad reputation.

"This is what God wanted me to do"


Suuure he did.

God has never been in favor of His word or His worship being forbidden. And this kid wasn't hypocritical or rude, as for the rest....

I'll refer you to this...



That's the national seal that was proposed by Benjamin Franklin.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

I am all for bucking the system. Good for the kid. What are they going to do to him? He already graduated. If it makes the establishment mad then go for it.

I remember what my school threatened. They only handed us rolled up blank papers on stage, we didn't get our diplomas until the next week by mail. They told us if anybody did anything to disrupt graduation, they wouldn't give them their diploma. Whether or not they could get away with that, I don't know, but everybody toed the line to that threat. We were even forbidden to throw our caps in the air. Of course we were still allowed to pray, I'm sure like almost all public schools it's banned there now.

eber322 wrote:

God has never been in favor of His word or His worship being forbidden. And this kid wasn't hypocritical or rude,

You should have read the article that came with this video. There's a reason the founding fathers separated church and state. If you wish to hear the word of God or worship him, then go to church. It's what they're there for.

Yes, he was both rude and a hypocrite. He knew there were non-Christian students present. He knew there were also Atheists. You cannot say while you do not share their beliefs, you respect those people, then do something like this. This was their ceremony too. Nobody wanted a Christian Circus sideshow.

How understanding would you be if the student were Islamic and had everybody get on their knees, face Mecca, and praise Allah for the occasion?

eber322 wrote:

I remember what my school threatened. They only handed us rolled up blank papers on stage, we didn't get our diplomas until the next week by mail. They told us if anybody did anything to disrupt graduation, they wouldn't give them their diploma. Whether or not they could get away with that, I don't know, but everybody toed the line to that threat. We were even forbidden to throw our caps in the air. Of course we were still allowed to pray, I'm sure like almost all public schools it's banned there now.

With Diploma's, they did the same to me, and my children. Prayer however, is still very much allowed. It's just not lead by an adult or member of the staff. Children that choose to do so, do it prior to the start of class. This is especially true during breakfast/lunch in the cafeteria.

Bandit wrote:

eber322 wrote:

God has never been in favor of His word or His worship being forbidden. And this kid wasn't hypocritical or rude,

You should have read the article that came with this video. There's a reason the founding fathers separated church and state. If you wish to hear the word of God or worship him, then go to church. It's what they're there for.

Yes, he was both rude and a hypocrite. He knew there were non-Christian students present. He knew there were also Atheists. You cannot say while you do not share their beliefs, you respect those people, then do something like this. This was their ceremony too. Nobody wanted a Christian Circus sideshow.

How understanding would you be if the student were Islamic and had everybody get on their knees, face Mecca, and praise Allah for the occasion?

But isn't that a problem? People being to sensitive. My daughter went to a catholic church even though we are not catholic I had no problem with it. America has just grown into a bunch of wimps. I have sat through many things I did not agree with. Did I get mad na. Just took the good things away from it and left the bad behind. God forbid if we tell the truth.

Yeah, I really don't care what the kid did. When people start to preach or proselytize to a crowd I just stop paying attention. If they're addressing me, then I'll gladly inform them on what I think about their god.

About the title of the thread:Bandit has it right when he said "Prayer however, is still very much allowed. It's just not lead by an adult or member of the staff." They're allowed clubs as well.

A little info on that.
http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/religionandschools/prayer_guidance.html

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

But isn't that a problem? People being to sensitive. My daughter went to a catholic church even though we are not catholic I had no problem with it. America has just grown into a bunch of wimps. I have sat through many things I did not agree with. Did I get mad na. Just took the good things away from it and left the bad behind. God forbid if we tell the truth.

Since when is showing proper etiquette at a formal ceremony and expecting participants to have good manners deemed "to sensitive"?

The whole idea of Christians being 'persecuted for their faith' is a great marketing idea they came up with at faux news and sadly many lap it up as fact. Some schools won't allow students to pray on their own, and they should. The stated policy for most schools I know of is that students can pray but the a school official cannot lead a prayer or religious group in an official capacity. In reality prayer in school has always been allowed. Do you need to speak to pray? Pray away, silently, and nobody will ever know. It's the having to tout your religion that I've always disagreed with. It doesn't make you better than other people because you claim you have religion.

Bandit wrote:

There's a reason the founding fathers separated church and state.

The founding fathers didn't separate church and state. That's a bullcr@p lie made up by atheists just like the one that the founders were deists. What the founders did was say the feds couldn't establish a national religion, like England did with the church of England. That's it, nothing else was banned or separated. That's why the founders had prayers when Congress meets, and congress still does, and that's why the founders used federal funds to donate thousands of Bibles to schools and libraries.

Bandit wrote:

Nobody wanted a Christian Circus sideshow.

By the sounds of the applause, it sounds like nearly everybody want Christian prayer.

Bandit wrote:

How understanding would you be if the student were Islamic and had everybody get on their knees, face Mecca, and praise Allah for the occasion?

Nothing like that happened. This student didn't "make" anybody do anything, he simply said a prayer. Others were free to join in or not as they chose. If the Valedictorian was Muslim and had simply said a Muslim prayer at my ceremony I'd not have minded. Any more then I did when the Jewish Salutatorian said some prayer from the Torah and then translated it at my college graduation. Why should I care what somebody else believes, unless they try to force their beliefs on me? You know like the atheists are always trying to do.

eber322 wrote:

The founding fathers didn't separate church and state. That's a bullcr@p lie made up by atheists just like the one that the founders were deists.

Many founding fathers argued, debated for, and were adamant about the separation of church and state, and this countries government was founded very purposefully as a secular one. And many of the founding fathers actually were deists or at least influenced by enlightenment philosophy including James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen, Thomas Paine, and Thomas Jefferson. All these men believed in a god as far as I know, deism isn't atheism, but they all believed in a government free from theocratic rule.

Jefferson's wall of separation letter is quite famous and led to the Establishment Clause.

eber322 wrote:

Why should I care what somebody else believes, unless they try to force their beliefs on me? You know like the atheists are always trying to do.

Atheists aren't trying to force their beliefs on you. When was the last time an atheist knocked upon your door with pamphlet in hand. Maybe you're just angry that they have found their voice and are using it.

eber322 wrote:

Bandit wrote:

There's a reason the founding fathers separated church and state.

The founding fathers didn't separate church and state. That's a bullcr@p lie made up by atheists just like the one that the founders were deists. What the founders did was say the feds couldn't establish a national religion, like England did with the church of England. That's it, nothing else was banned or separated. That's why the founders had prayers when Congress meets, and congress still does, and that's why the founders used federal funds to donate thousands of Bibles to schools and libraries.

Bandit wrote:

Nobody wanted a Christian Circus sideshow.

By the sounds of the applause, it sounds like nearly everybody want Christian prayer.

Bandit wrote:

How understanding would you be if the student were Islamic and had everybody get on their knees, face Mecca, and praise Allah for the occasion?

Nothing like that happened. This student didn't "make" anybody do anything, he simply said a prayer. Others were free to join in or not as they chose. If the Valedictorian was Muslim and had simply said a Muslim prayer at my ceremony I'd not have minded. Any more then I did when the Jewish Salutatorian said some prayer from the Torah and then translated it at my college graduation. Why should I care what somebody else believes, unless they try to force their beliefs on me? You know like the atheists are always trying to do.

Amen, eber. :cheers:

Samurai wrote:

The whole idea of Christians being 'persecuted for their faith' is a great marketing idea they came up with at faux news and sadly many lap it up as fact. Some schools won't allow students to pray on their own, and they should. The stated policy for most schools I know of is that students can pray but the a school official cannot lead a prayer or religious group in an official capacity. In reality prayer in school has always been allowed. Do you need to speak to pray? Pray away, silently, and nobody will ever know. It's the having to tout your religion that I've always disagreed with. It doesn't make you better than other people because you claim you have religion.

Where the hell have you been?

Bandit wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

But isn't that a problem? People being to sensitive. My daughter went to a catholic church even though we are not catholic I had no problem with it. America has just grown into a bunch of wimps. I have sat through many things I did not agree with. Did I get mad na. Just took the good things away from it and left the bad behind. God forbid if we tell the truth.

Since when is showing proper etiquette at a formal ceremony and expecting participants to have good manners deemed "to sensitive"?

I kind of understand what you are saying. But really to me it is just one of those things alright he done it move on. Just as if he had said Satan is great. I would forget about that part and remember the good. The kid got cheered. So the majority of the people did not mind. If he didn't do it that is alright also.

ilaugh wrote:

eber322 wrote:

Why should I care what somebody else believes, unless they try to force their beliefs on me? You know like the atheists are always trying to do.

Atheists aren't trying to force their beliefs on you. When was the last time an atheist knocked upon your door with pamphlet in hand. Maybe you're just angry that they have found their voice and are using it.

Last time was at work. We become friends.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

ilaugh wrote:

eber322 wrote:

Why should I care what somebody else believes, unless they try to force their beliefs on me? You know like the atheists are always trying to do.

Atheists aren't trying to force their beliefs on you. When was the last time an atheist knocked upon your door with pamphlet in hand. Maybe you're just angry that they have found their voice and are using it.

Last time was at work. We become friends.

An atheist knocked on you door proselytizing?

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Where the hell have you been?

Same place as always, just spending time doing other things. I find myself online more these days and was going through my favorites and I actually didn't expect this board to still be here. Thought it'd be fun to come in and poke you conservatives.

eber322 wrote:

The founding fathers didn't separate church and state. That's a bullcr@p lie made up by atheists just like the one that the founders were deists.

Oh, it's quite true Eber. And yes, they were in fact deists. Why they as Christians themselves, were so distrusting of organized religion (Churches), is obvious.

eber322 wrote:

By the sounds of the applause, it sounds like nearly everybody want Christian prayer.

No Eber, just Christians. The fact there were more Christians present than any other group doesn't make it acceptable.

Samurai wrote:

Where the hell have you been?

Same place as always, just spending time doing other things.  I find myself online more these days and was going through my favorites and I actually didn't expect this board to still be here.  Thought it'd be fun to come in and poke you conservatives.

I am hoping on this board we can discuss things in a rational adult manner. So far so good. Glad to see you back.

One question needs to be asked. Was any one hurt when he said the prayer? Are they still going to go to college get a job make a career out of welfare? Sure they are. Did it stop them from getting a diploma? I think people are making this out to be bigger then what it was. Have I sat through stuff like this that I didn't agree with sure. Did it ruin my day or my life no. Maybe I am just more mature like that.