Was Obama running guns?

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

http://townhall.com/columnists/katiekieffer/2013/04/29/benghazigate-obamas-secret-gunrunning-program-n1580051/page/full

Wow the longer this goes one the worse it gets. I know there is still more vetting going on with this. But if it is true this is big real big.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

Of course he was, he probably still is.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Mostly an opinion piece from a highly partisan site. forgive me if I'm a little skeptical about a piece that opens up with: "Liberals don’t want honest Americans like you to have guns. Liberals just want to arm foreign rebels in crapshoot attempts to “end global violence.” But liberals feign ignorance when the rebels they arm end up being criminals who kill innocent Americans like the late U.S. Ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens."

And what about: "Unfortunately the CIA has “vetted” shady intermediaries (including Syria’s Muslim Brotherhood) and shady recipients of thousands of tons worth of military equipment and millions of rounds of ammo. Consequently, weapons have fallen into the wrong hands. In the case of Benghazi, anti-tank weapons appear to have landed in the hands of terrorists."

I suppose we should add the mujahideen to that list. We've been arming chosen sides in conflicts for decades. And while I don't necessarily approve, I'm not sure how scandalous it is.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

ilaugh wrote:: Mostly an opinion piece from a highly partisan site. forgive me if I'm a little skeptical about a piece that opens up with: "Liberals don’t want honest Americans like you to have guns. Liberals just want to arm foreign rebels in crapshoot attempts to “end global violence.” But liberals feign ignorance when the rebels they arm end up being criminals who kill innocent Americans like the late U.S. Ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens."

And what about: "Unfortunately the CIA has “vetted” shady intermediaries (including Syria’s Muslim Brotherhood) and shady recipients of thousands of tons worth of military equipment and millions of rounds of ammo. Consequently, weapons have fallen into the wrong hands. In the case of Benghazi, anti-tank weapons appear to have landed in the hands of terrorists."

I suppose we should add the mujahideen to that list. We've been arming chosen sides in conflicts for decades. And while I don't necessarily approve, I'm not sure how scandalous it is.

Actually it is from more then one site. Also major news outlets are vetting it. I am not saying it is true. But if it is this is a game changer.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: I am not saying it is true. But if it is this is a game changer.

Possibly, I'll continue to watch.

Subject: Re: Was Obama running guns? Sun May 26, 2013 5:06 pm

ilaugh wrote:: ...Consequently, weapons have fallen into the wrong hands. In the case of Benghazi, anti-tank weapons appear to have landed in the hands of terrorists.

I suppose we should add the mujahideen to that list. We've been arming chosen sides in conflicts for decades. And while I don't necessarily approve, I'm not sure how scandalous it is.

Yes we have been arming chosen sides in conflicts, but this sort of thing should be public knowledge and NOT lied about, as they're doing with Benghazi. Both Glenn Beck (an intensely honest man whom I trust) and Geraldo Rivera have sources which confirmed that our embassy in Benghazi was running weapons to the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria, and Al Qaeda (they hate the Brotherhood) found out about it and attacked our embassy because of that. And that our traitor of a president was arming the Muslim Brotherhood is beyond disgusting! Those people try to bring Sharia Law to the lands they control, and this means horrible oppression to all non-Muslims, especially Christians. Obama helped the MB come to power in Egypt, and the oppression has begun there.

Posts : 333 Join date : 2012-11-07

I'm not sure I see the lies as clearly as you. If information is held back because it's considered classified, it's not really a lie. Now I dislike the fact that America is an imperialist nation and has been meddling in the middle east for too long, but I'm not sure that Obama continuing to do something that this country has been doing for decades is really all that scandalous. I mean we armed and trained the mujaheddin.

Do you really think that a government in Iraq or Afghanistan wont be heavily influenced by, if now outright controlled by Islam, and that the radical fundamental aspect of that religion won't fight for control? Do you realize that not all of Sharia Law is radical by nature and that some aspects of Sharia Law are lawfully practiced everyday throughout America, especially in business practice?
And as I've said other places here, fundamentalism of any kind has great potential for doing evil.

There's an issue here, but it's not Obama being an evil Muslim terrorist. It's the American response and continued polices that haven't changed for years.

As far as Glenn Beck is concerned. I see him as just another salesman pushing his point of view. Whether it's honest or not is largely besides the point, and I'll leave that up to you. But from where I stand it comes off as largely opinion, and speculation.

Posts : 4629 Join date : 2009-10-07

ilaugh wrote:: I'm not sure I see the lies as clearly as you. If information is held back because it's considered classified, it's not really a lie. Now I dislike the fact that America is an imperialist nation and has been meddling in the middle east for too long, but I'm not sure that Obama continuing to do something that this country has been doing for decades is really all that scandalous. I mean we armed and trained the mujaheddin.

Do you really think that a government in Iraq or Afghanistan wont be heavily influenced by, if now outright controlled by Islam, and that the radical fundamental aspect of that religion won't fight for control? Do you realize that not all of Sharia Law is radical by nature and that some aspects of Sharia Law are lawfully practiced everyday throughout America, especially in business practice?
And as I've said other places here, fundamentalism of any kind has great potential for doing evil.

There's an issue here, but it's not Obama being an evil Muslim terrorist. It's the American response and continued polices that haven't changed for years.

As far as Glenn Beck is concerned. I see him as just another salesman pushing his point of view. Whether it's honest or not is largely besides the point, and I'll leave that up to you. But from where I stand it comes off as largely opinion, and speculation.

The story was changed 12 times. I work with a Muslim and I am educating myself with him on stuff. Like I did not know actually Muslim is the religion. Islam, Shiite, Sunni, and Kurd are the four sub religion of Muslim.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: ...Like I did not know actually Muslim is the religion. Islam, Shiite, Sunni, and Kurd are the four sub religion of Muslim.

Ah no, you have that wrong. Islam is the religion, Muslim is a term to describe anyone who follows Islam and Shiite, Sunni, Kurd, etc are sects of Islam.

For comparison of terms.... Islam = Christianity .... Muslim = Christian ... Shiite, Sunni, Kurd = Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran

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Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: The story was changed 12 times.

I must admit that I'm a bit behind on this story. I'm kind of waiting on the fog to clear a bit.

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eber322 wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: ...Like I did not know actually Muslim is the religion. Islam, Shiite, Sunni, and Kurd are the four sub religion of Muslim.

Ah no, you have that wrong. Islam is the religion, Muslim is a term to describe anyone who follows Islam and Shiite, Sunni, Kurd, etc are sects of Islam.

For comparison of terms.... Islam = Christianity .... Muslim = Christian ... Shiite, Sunni, Kurd = Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran

That is not the way this guy explained to me.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

eber322 wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:: ...Like I did not know actually Muslim is the religion. Islam, Shiite, Sunni, and Kurd are the four sub religion of Muslim.

Ah no, you have that wrong. Islam is the religion, Muslim is a term to describe anyone who follows Islam and Shiite, Sunni, Kurd, etc are sects of Islam.

For comparison of terms.... Islam = Christianity .... Muslim = Christian ... Shiite, Sunni, Kurd = Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran

That is not the way this guy explained to me.

Well, then either you misunderstood, he doesn't know what he's talking about, or he lied.

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

eber322 wrote:: Ah no, you have that wrong. Islam is the religion, Muslim is a term to describe anyone who follows Islam and Shiite, Sunni, Kurd, etc are sects of Islam.

Ah no, you have it wrong as well. Sunni and Shia are the only two sects of Islam. Those that follow Shia Islam are called Shiites. Those that follow Sunni Islam are called Muslims.

As the majority of those that follow Islam, follow Sunni (orthodox version) the West mistakenly labels everybody following Islam as "Muslim". Shiites consider that a major insult.

Kurds are a people that also follow Islam. As they have tribes throughout the middle East, they follow both sects of Islam.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

Alright, I did make one mistake. Kurd isn't a sect, I knew that too, but I didn't stop to think about it. Kurd is actually a description of people who live in a certain area, it would be like the term Southerners or Midwesterners here, except the kurds are mostly all related as well. While all Kurds most likely are followers of Islam, the term has nothing to do with religion.

However, everything else I said is absolutely correct. Islam is the religion, Muslim is not a religion, all followers of Islam are called Muslims. The only time I've ever seen people say that Shiites aren't Muslims is when Sunnis claim they violate all the Islamic laws, therefore aren't really Muslims. Shiiites refer to themselves as being Muslims, or Shia Muslims.

Posts : 1131 Join date : 2012-11-14

eber322 wrote:: Alright, I did make one mistake. Kurd isn't a sect, I knew that too, but I didn't stop to think about it. Kurd is actually a description of people who live in a certain area, it would be like the term Southerners or Midwesterners here, except the kurds are mostly all related as well. While all Kurds most likely are followers of Islam, the term has nothing to do with religion.

However, everything else I said is absolutely correct. Islam is the religion, Muslim is not a religion, all followers of Islam are called Muslims. The only time I've ever seen people say that Shiites aren't Muslims is when Sunnis claim they violate all the Islamic laws, therefore aren't really Muslims. Shiiites refer to themselves as being Muslims, or Shia Muslims.

The Kurds are a people numbering close to 40 million. They are not a description. They are found in Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Syria. They speak their own language (Kurdish) as well as Arabic. Only the Kurds in Iraq have their own government. No, the name "Kurd" has nothing to do with religion.

Yes, Islam is the religion. In my years over in the middle East, I have NEVER heard a Shiite refer to themselves as a Muslim. As I said, that happens only in the west (USA).

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Of course it's a description, it's a description for those people in that area. Now you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

Shiites are Muslims, they call themselves that. Of course being the 15% minority they will say I'm Shia, the Muslim part is taken for granted in that part of the world. Just like the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland will say "I'm Catholic" or "I'm, Protestant" instead of saying "I'm Christian". Doesn't Make them not both Christians, and it doesn't make them both not consider themselves Christians.

http://shia.org/

Isn't it amazing that right on their homepage they have a link to a list of important "Muslims". You'd almost expect them to have a list of important Shiites instead if they were not Muslims.

http://al-shia.org/html/eng/index.php (Click on left hand link ISLAM scroll down to article "The Rights of Fellow Muslims" or scroll down even further for the many other articles referring to themselves as Muslims.)

Ah, here we go. A link to an actual Middle Eastern Shia website where they talk about "The Rights of Fellow Muslims"... why would they have "fellow Muslims" if they aren't Muslims themselves?

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Their homepage? Those sites aren't even from the middle east. You might have noticed the lack of the Arabic language.

Anyway, I don't see why you're all upset. All I did was correct you. Sheesh.

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truth is a cold hearted *****.

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Wow I can't spell ***** here. Really? how about Sorry had to delete that one. let's see if that prints.

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Well, my swollen bloody anus trailing viscus fluids, just having fun here.

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Sorry, Pissedoffvulcan. I realize that this is your board, and that I'm wrong here, but come on *****?

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ilaugh wrote:: Sorry, Pissedoffvulcan. I realize that this is your board, and that I'm wrong here, but come on *****?

The people on this board forumation can report abuses of this. That is why I run a tight ship cussing. It took a long time to get this to where it is at today. I just do not want to take any chances.

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I get it, and so does my cock. Come on people I'm talking about my chicken. Even though I love a good vulgarity, I'll try to keep it civil.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

Bandit wrote:: Their homepage? Those sites aren't even from the middle east. You might have noticed the lack of the Arabic language.

Anyway, I don't see why you're all upset. All I did was correct you. Sheesh.

Lol, I'm not upset. you didn't correct me because you are completely wrong in everything you said, except for the Kurds being a Muslim sect. For which I admitted I was wrong, why can't you ever admit you're wrong? I disproved 90% of everything you've said there the last couple of weeks but you still insist fire is cold, the earth is flat, and humans breath Methane. Oh and by the way, yeah that second link is from the Middle East that's why I posted it. If you'd like to see the original Arabic here you go...

http://al-shia.org/

Or would you rather see it in dutch or Swahili? Lol, upset :lol:

Website owned and run by Aalulbayt Global Information Center....

Quote :: The Ahlulbayt (a.s.) Global Information Center is an organization under the supervision of the office of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.[1] While they themselves include "(as)" in their organization title,[1] some omit it.

The organization was founded in the spring of 1998, on the anniversary of Eid al-Ghadeer,[1] by Sistani's son-in-law "in a small building" in holy Shi'a city of Qom, a scholarly center of Shi'a Islam

Qom is in Iran by the way.

Quote :: They operate though various internet websites, including:

al-shia.org [4]

"available in no less than 27 languages, boasting huge archives, everything translated by a group of students, native speakers, in Qom. There are Afghans, Tajiks, Russians, northern Africans; they have been transferring all Shi'ite textbooks online for three years now. Zadeh says this is considered the number one Shi'ite website, and number seven among all Muslim websites. It has an average of 250,000 visits a month, from as many as 133 countries."[5]

holynajaf.net[2]
sistani.org [5]
Quran.al-shia.org "only about the Koran, the whole book translated in 27 languages, plus interpretations"[5]
balaghah.net, with a collection of Imam Ali's sayings in 22 languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aalulbayt_%28a.s.%29_Global_Information_Center

Not a Middle Eastern site huh? Guess you were wrong yet again.

Posts : 2915 Join date : 2009-10-10 Location : Michigan

ilaugh, seriously you're begging for ban? Why not just leave instead of trolling up the joint.

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