Mormons aren't Christians.

Amen is a Hebrew word that means: It is firm, like a rock.
It is saying that faith in God and his Word are solid and permanent like rock. It is saying that God and faith are the foundation of our lives.

As far as Christians, we use it pretty much the same way without most people even knowing the actual translation. Christians use it to say Verily, Truly, Certainly, etc. Again it is to affirm the truth of Gods Word and faith in Him. It's like swearing an oath of faith.

eber322 wrote:

Amen is a Hebrew word that means: It is firm, like a rock.
It is saying that faith in God and his Word are solid and permanent like rock. It is saying that God and faith are the foundation of our lives.

As far as Christians, we use it pretty much the same way without most people even knowing the actual translation. Christians use it to say Verily, Truly, Certainly, etc. Again it is to affirm the truth of Gods Word and faith in Him. It's like swearing an oath of faith.

Hmm. There is two things I have a problem with that.
Amen was an angel in gnostic text(I have not been able to hunt this down yet), gnosticism is much of where christanity came from. Before that.. Amen was an egyptian god. The king of all gods... so powerful that other gods became a manifestation of him..

So we have the christian founders referring to Amen as an angel.. it seems to make sense to me that the christians wouldnt want an obvious link between there religion and whatever the hell the egyptians believe in. I am pretty much shooting in the dark here, there seems to be more to this tale though.

The Egyptian god you are referring to was named Amun-Ra, which I believe was pronounced just as it looks, not like AMEN. The Hebrew word has nothing to do with him besides a similar sound.

As far as Angels named in the bible, we have...

Michael: Revelation 12:7 & Daniel 10:13
Gabriel: Daniel 8:16 & Luke 1:19
Raphael: Tobit 12:15

The Orthodox Bible contains a few additional books that name the following angels as well...

Jegudiel
Barachiel
Jerahmeel
Uriel
Sealtiel


There are other angels in non Biblical texts, however I've never heard of one called Amen. Even if there is one in some ancient text, it really doesn't matter as those text are not, and never were, part of the Bible.

eber322 wrote:

The Egyptian god you are referring to was named Amun-Ra, which I believe was pronounced just as it looks, not like AMEN. The Hebrew word has nothing to do with him besides a similar sound.

As far as Angels named in the bible, we have...

Michael: Revelation 12:7 & Daniel 10:13
Gabriel: Daniel 8:16 & Luke 1:19
Raphael: Tobit 12:15

The Orthodox Bible contains a few additional books that name the following angels as well...

Jegudiel
Barachiel
Jerahmeel
Uriel
Sealtiel


There are other angels in non Biblical texts, however I've never heard of one called Amen. Even if there is one in some ancient text, it really doesn't matter as those text are not, and never were, part of the Bible.

Yes, I was referring to Amen-Ra, the translation from egyptian to english can be done many ways. To quote wikipedia

"Amun, reconstructed Egyptian Yamānu[citation needed] (also spelled Amon, Amoun, Amen, and rarely Imen or Yamun"

I never said Amen the angel was in the bible, I said in the works of the gnostics(which you can easily research to see this is the foundation of the split from judism into christanity) there is an angel named Amen. Some people actually believe Jesus was a gnostic which actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it. And again, all other gods were said to be the manifestation of Amen-Ra. Now think about "in god's name we prey, Amen" in this light. There is something to this.

Oh poppy cock. Christ was not Gnostic, and to claim that makes no sense at all. Christ was a Jew. The First Christians followed his teachings and the Torah. Gnosticism came along much later and was a bastardization of Christianity and ancient pagan religions. Much like Mormonism is a bastardization of Christianity and a modern religion created by Joseph Smith. You might as well claim Jesus was a Mormon.

Regardless of how wikipedia says it can be spelled, Amun is pronounced Ay-mun whereas Amen is pronounced either Ay-men or Ah-men. And regardless Amun-Ra has nothing to do with the Hebrew word for firm like rock. You're looking for a connection that doesn't exist.

Have you ever seen this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBBg7RZhpHc

I haven't verified all the facts myself or anything, it is not something i am to concerned with i just find it interesting.

Yes I've seen that and it proves my point right in the beginning when they say something along the lines of "there were thousands of texts not included in the Bible". They weren't included because they were bunkum that were, at the time, new texts written by people pushing their own agenda, much like Smith and his book of Mormon. They were never part of Christianity, they were instead attempts from outside the religion to corrupt the teachings of Christ.

The whole reason that the Church took all the existing texts and collected them into the Bible was because about a hundred years after Christ, people started make cr@p up and corrupting people with false teachings. So they took large parts of the Torah and the various texts of Christ and his teachings and collected them together into one book then made copies of it. This keep people from being able to make up new stuff and claim it was legit.

If you want to read some truly interesting stuff you need to read the really early stuff that predates the Torah. Like how Adam had a first wife named Lilith who was also made from dirt. But she refused to be Adams mate and ran away, and God created Eve from Adams rib after that. Whether any of that truly old stuff is true or not, I don't know, but they do explain things like were Adam and Eve's kids found mates, where the race of Angels came form etc.

I dont know how many times ive run into a religious person familiar with the bible tell me my last name is in the bible as one of the angels. Might have to look it up one day and see what it says in the bible about my last name.

Anyways ive spoken to one my friends who is a mormon and from what he tells me nowhere near the majority believe in mormonism as you described it. And ive said in the past Glenn Beck is a Mormon and he has described what he believes clearly and in great detail saying on the radio he believes in one god and only one god.

My knowledge of religion is very elementary so would some say then that people who practice being a Baptist, Methodist, etc. are not true Christians.

These are the angels that are named in the bible...

Michael: Revelation 12:7 & Daniel 10:13
Gabriel: Daniel 8:16 & Luke 1:19
Raphael: Tobit 12:15

The Orthodox Bible contains a few additional books that name the following angels as well...

Jegudiel
Barachiel
Jerahmeel
Uriel
Sealtiel

As far as Mormonism goes, everything I've said here here is exactly what Mormons believe. It all comes from their savior Joseph Smith. It is the very fundamental basis of their religion. They all claim they only believe in one God, but what they mean is FOR THIS WORLD. You need to ask them...

Do you believe God used to be a man?
Do you believe it's possible for Mormons to become gods?

If they say yes to either they are not Christians. If they say no to both, they are either lying or they are not Mormon/LDS.

Eber you seem to be making a lot of assumptions, I am not going to attempt to convince you otherwise though. Battling religious people about there beliefs is no longer a hobby of mine. :)

Assumptions about what? Mormons? I've read their Book of Mormon, Pearl of great Price, and Doctrine & Covenants which are the three main texts their religion is based upon.

I have also read the Bible and know what the basic fundamental beliefs of Christianity are. Mormon beliefs are opposed to fundamental Christian beliefs (I've pointed out several of them in this thread), therefore they are not Christian.

Or are you referring to my previous post to you? I've done extensive reading on the Bible and the other non canonical texts as well. I've been doing religious research for nearly thirty years, since I was twelve.

I first became interested in religion reading about the Greek/Roman gods. I then figured I'd learn about my own Christian religion which led to comparing it to the other Christian religions as well. I studied and learned about Mormons twenty years ago while in college. Just within the last few years, less than five, I've read the Koran and researched Islam. I'm now reading about Hindu's, but have yet to read any of their actual holy books.

I have no degrees or formal education in religion, except for the instruction I received as a kid in my own religion. But I have read holy texts for many religions and hundreds of books by experts about those religions. I am about as knowledgeable on religions in general, and Christianity in particular, as a non professional can be.

Let me say this again... my only point was to let people know Mormons aren't Christians. That only for the benefit of anybody supporting Romney wholly or partially on the false belief he is Christian.

I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking Mormons or their religion. I find nothing wrong with their religion or beliefs, beyond being slightly miffed that they claim to be Christians... which only became an issue worth discussing in light of Romney's run. I have stated the facts, take it or leave it, believe it or not, it is all out there and available for you to verify on your own.

Therefore I'll no longer discuss this topic unless something happens to bring it to more importance. Good thing I didn't bring up the other religion that claims to be Christian when they aren't, would have produced even more flak.

I am just going to remain quiet, I am not interested in how this debate is going.

eber322 wrote:

These are the angels that are named in the bible...

Michael: Revelation 12:7 & Daniel 10:13
Gabriel: Daniel 8:16 & Luke 1:19
Raphael: Tobit 12:15

The Orthodox Bible contains a few additional books that name the following angels as well...

Jegudiel
Barachiel
Jerahmeel
Uriel
Sealtiel

As far as Mormonism goes, everything I've said here here is exactly what Mormons believe. It all comes from their savior Joseph Smith. It is the very fundamental basis of their religion. They all claim they only believe in one God, but what they mean is FOR THIS WORLD. You need to ask them...

Do you believe God used to be a man?
Do you believe it's possible for Mormons to become gods?

If they say yes to either they are not Christians. If they say no to both, they are either lying or they are not Mormon/LDS.

(Serafín), Portuguese, and Italian (Venetian): from a medieval personal name, Latin Seraphinus, from Hebrew serafim. In the Bible this term is applied to the class of six-winged creatures described in Isaiah 6, which came to be regarded in the Middle Ages as a class of angels; it is the plural form of Hebrew saraf, probably a derivative of saraf ‘to burn’. In part the Portuguese surname may represent a religious byname adopted in honor of the Capuchin monk St. Seraphinus (1540-1604, formally canonized in 1767).

Growing up though I had a aunt that was a Catholic nune from 17 until she died in her 80s who always told me it meant guardian of the angels. Always like that.




Once again Glenn Beck has clearly said he believes in one and one God only on several occasions. So if you think he and my friend are not telling the truth it leaves us at a stalemate.

ssvs04 wrote:

(Serafín), Portuguese, and Italian (Venetian): from a medieval personal name, Latin Seraphinus, from Hebrew serafim. In the Bible this term is applied to the class of six-winged creatures described in Isaiah 6, which came to be regarded in the Middle Ages as a class of angels; it is the plural form of Hebrew saraf, probably a derivative of saraf ‘to burn’. In part the Portuguese surname may represent a religious byname adopted in honor of the Capuchin monk St. Seraphinus (1540-1604, formally canonized in 1767).

Growing up though I had a aunt that was a Catholic nune from 17 until she died in her 80s who always told me it meant guardian of the angels. Always like that.

Ah, ok. I was thinking you meant name of a specific angel, but rather it is a type of angel you meant.

Nine types being...

Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels, Angels