Mormons aren't Christians.

Now I don't have anything against Mormons, except being mildly annoyed that they claim to be Christians when they are not. However I normally wouldn't bother to talk about that, except that some people are supporting Romney on the grounds he is Christian. He is not, and here is why...

Romney isn't a Christian, he's Mormon. Mormons don't believe in 'G'od, notice the capital G as in one and only. Mormons believe there are many gods who each rule separate planets of people and God is only one of the many. In fact they believe God used to be a man who lived on another planet and after going to heaven was granted godhood by the gods already there and given Earth as his domain. Further they believe that if they are successful enough in life, by having many wives and children and success in their personal lives as well, they themselves can go to heaven and be given godhood by the gods and get a planet to rule over for themselves. Christians, on the other hand, believe God is the one and only. There are no others, he has no equal, and that he created everything.

I know that if any Mormons are reading this, it might be upsetting for you. I'm sorry, but the truth is...

Your church believes in god, lower case. Not God upper case. Your church believes that God is god of this planet and was once a man on another planet. Your church believes there are many others gods. Your church believes that God got his godhood from other gods. Your church doesn't believe that God created everything. Your church believes that Jesus was the son of god, not God. Your church members believe that they themselves can become gods.

All of these beliefs, and more, that your church holds are directly and fundamentally contrary to fundamental Christian doctrin. Therefore your church is NOT a Christian church.

That said, once again I harbor no ill will to Mormons aka "Latter Day Saints". Simply want to set the record straight in the hopes that people won't support Romney based on false claims of Christianity.


EDIT: found a video that covers what I said and more...

There "may" be a small group of Mormons that believe that but I know several Mormons and have heard Mormon Glenn Beck discuss is faith and they would all say what you wrote is lunacy and they believe in the same god as Baptists, Catholics, etc.

ssvs04 wrote:

There "may" be a small group of Mormons that believe that but I know several Mormons and have heard Mormon Glenn Beck discuss is faith and they would all say what you wrote is lunacy and they believe in the same god as Baptists, Catholics, etc.

I'm sorry but that isn't true. Mormons CLAIM to worship the same God, true. They get away with that because they do read, preach, talk about parts of the Bible. However, everything I wrote comes directly from the "Book of Mormon" which is THEIR fundamental text that, for them, supersedes the Bible.

Some excerpts from the below site. The site itself goes further into detail.
http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/fourteen

Quote :

1 - God was once a man who lived on another planet

This is the most important teaching of Mormonism. Nothing else comes close to it. We believe that God was once a mortal man on another planet who progressed by living in obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel he had on his world, then he died. He became a resurrected man and evolved to become a god. He is still married now (some early leaders say he is a polygamist) and created this world. We worship only the one true god, which is really one god among millions or billions or more. We believe that we will follow in God's footsteps by becoming perfect and we too will become Gods and Goddesses creating spirit children and peopling other worlds. The Mormon TV commercials showing family togetherness is the foundation for life in the next world - as a family - as gods.

2 - We are co-eternal with God

We believe we have all existed for all eternity. Our "intelligences" have existed forever just like the our God's has...

3 - The origin of Jesus Christ

Jesus was begotten by physical union of God and Mary. Since God has a body of flesh and bones, he really had literal sex with Mary.

4 - Truth is determined by feelings

We believe we know the truth by our feelings. We do not rely on and we will disregard any facts that contradict what our feelings tell us is true.

5 - What a Prophet said can be revised depending on the circumstances

6 - Saving our dead ancestors shows we are the only Christian church

We believe we have temples where we get the handshakes and passwords that allow us to become gods. We also baptize by proxy dead people so they too can become Mormons.

7 - Ex-Mormons or apostates had sin in their life or never had a testimony

8 - We will only read church approved materials

9 - We need to convert the whole world to Mormonism

10 - By being Mormons we are assured of salvation - even if we are wrong

We believe that even if we are wrong about Mormonism, God will forgive us since we believed in Christ just like the Christians said we should. If we are right, and we know we are, then we will be together forever with our families as gods. Why should we want to be anything other than Mormons since we have all our bases covered?

11 - Since we have the name of Christ in our church - our church is the only true one.

12 - We believe in the Book of Mormon

13 - The fruits of Mormonism prove it is the true church

We believe by manipulating statistics we can show we have a superior belief system. We disregard statistics which are embarrassing to our position such as the high divorce rate in Utah.

14 Since there are people who oppose our beliefs - our beliefs must be true

All I did was search for "what do Mormons really believe?" in google and this was the first result. I'd never seen the site before, apparently it is run by a former Mormon who verifies everything I said. Research it yourself. The internet is full info that supports what I said.

Or better yet do what I did fifteen years ago, read the book of Mormon, and the supporting texts by Smith who wrote the book of Mormon, and learn it for yourself.

And again this isn't meant to attack their religion. But it is intended to clear up the misconception they purposely give people that could lead true Christians to vote for Romney, or any Mormon, thinking they are Christians. Just the yellow part from these quotes are enough to prove they aren't Christian. They don't even believe Jesus was immaculate conception as the bible teaches, that alone makes them not Christian.

The bible does speak of the planet Kalob. Anyway I will have to investigate this further. As far as I know Mormons believe in the old new and there testament. Having many conversations with them.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

The bible does speak of the planet Kalob.

Wow, no it doesn't. Kolob is a pure Mormon thing, not in the old or new testament.

There is a place called Arqa found in some obscure text that some Jews study, Mormons claim this is the same place as Kolob. These texts are not, nor never were part of the Bible. There are literally hundreds of texts that never made it into the Christian Bible, both texts that predate and texts that came after Jesus. these texts were rejected as false teachings. If they aren't in the Bible they aren't official and not part of Christianity.

This whole thing with Arqa gets into some very strange stuff, like where Angels come from. They aren't people, they aren't souls that went to heaven, as some people think. They are actually a sentient race God created before he created humans. These texts also get into things like Adams first wife, Lillith, who was made from dirt like Adam. But again these are not part of the Bible, not part of Christianity. Simply other older texts claiming to be Judeo-Christian just as Mormanism claims today.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Anyway I will have to investigate this further. As far as I know Mormons believe in the old new and there testament. Having many conversations with them.

Mormons believe in the old and new testaments much like the Muslims do. They believe in it except for the parts that they don't believe in because their main holy book contradicts it.

For example, Mormons don't believe Jesus was born to a virgin (immaculate conception). They also don't believe that Jesus is God, they believe he is the son of God but not God himself. Those two things right there mean they are not Christians, those are two VERY fundamental beliefs of Christianity.

And they are also not Christian, or Jews, because they don't believe in 'G'od as I've already went over. Anybody that believes in more than one god, even if God is one of them, isn't a Christian.

I really don't care about what Mitt Romney believes. His faith is his faith. My faith is my faith and trust me you don't want to know what I think.

eber322 wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

The bible does speak of the planet Kalob.

Wow, no it doesn't. Kolob is a pure Mormon thing, not in the old or new testament.

There is a place called Arqa found in some obscure text that some Jews study, Mormons claim this is the same place as Kolob. These texts are not, nor never were part of the Bible. There are literally hundreds of texts that never made it into the Christian Bible, both texts that predate and texts that came after Jesus. these texts were rejected as false teachings. If they aren't in the Bible they aren't official and not part of Christianity.

This whole thing with Arqa gets into some very strange stuff, like where Angels come from. They aren't people, they aren't souls that went to heaven, as some people think. They are actually a sentient race God created before he created humans. These texts also get into things like Adams first wife, Lillith, who was made from dirt like Adam. But again these are not part of the Bible, not part of Christianity. Simply other older texts claiming to be Judeo-Christian just as Mormanism claims today.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Anyway I will have to investigate this further. As far as I know Mormons believe in the old new and there testament. Having many conversations with them.

Mormons believe in the old and new testaments much like the Muslims do. They believe in it except for the parts that they don't believe in because their main holy book contradicts it.

For example, Mormons don't believe Jesus was born to a virgin (immaculate conception). They also don't believe that Jesus is God, they believe he is the son of God but not God himself. Those two things right there mean they are not Christians, those are two VERY fundamental beliefs of Christianity.

And they are also not Christian, or Jews, because they don't believe in 'G'od as I've already went over. Anybody that believes in more than one god, even if God is one of them, isn't a Christian.

Jews would say the same thing about Jesus and they would be right. Jesus comes along and all of a sudden it is alright to eat pork? A true Christian would follow both the old testament and the new.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

I really don't care about what Mitt Romney believes.

I don't care either, however, I do care that he is deceiving people into supporting him on based on lies.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Jews would say the same thing about Jesus and they would be right.

Which is exactly why the followers of Christ became know as Christians and not Jews. They no longer fit the definition of being Jewish.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Jesus comes along and all of a sudden it is alright to eat pork? A true Christian would follow both the old testament and the new.

Christians do follow both the old and the new, except for the stuff about the old that Jesus changed. Like the rules about kosher eating, eye for an eye, etc. And all of those changes resulted in his followers no longer being Jews.

Likewise all of the changes in the book of Mormon result in it's followers no longer being Christian. All the original Mormons, including Joseph Smith, started out as being Christians from other faiths. Once they began following Smith's teachings they no longer were, just like original followers of Christ went from being Jews to Christians.

In fact up until the late 1940's, Mormons never called themselves Christians. They hated all the Christian faiths and said they were all wrong. They called themselves "Saints" and would never allow themselves to be labeled as Christians. However their faith calls for them to convert everyone to Mormonism, and they realized that would be easier if they played up their similarities to Christians and downplayed their differences.

That is why today they very rarely discuss all the things I taught you in this thread with outsiders. If they did, everybody would know they aren't Christian and getting converts would be much harder.

I don't know much about Mormons so forgive me BUT, don't the Mormons believe Christ and Satan are BROTHERS? When GOD wanted to know how best to deal with human and their sins, Jesus suggested one way and Satan suggested another and God picked Jesus's suggestion which angered his 'brother' and that is why we are where we are?

Again, don't know much about Mormons, but THAT story always stuck in my craw.

Doesn't matter, I will likely NOT vote for Romney anyway.

Walterth3rd wrote:

I don't know much about Mormons so forgive me BUT, don't the Mormons believe Christ and Satan are BROTHERS? When GOD wanted to know how best to deal with human and their sins, Jesus suggested one way and Satan suggested another and God picked Jesus's suggestion which angered his 'brother' and that is why we are where we are?

Again, don't know much about Mormons, but THAT story always stuck in my craw.

Doesn't matter, I will likely NOT vote for Romney anyway.

Yes that is what they believe. Which reminds me of another difference, they don't believe in original sin; you know Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit. Again that is a fundamental difference to Christianity.

eber322 wrote:

Walterth3rd wrote:

I don't know much about Mormons so forgive me BUT, don't the Mormons believe Christ and Satan are BROTHERS? When GOD wanted to know how best to deal with human and their sins, Jesus suggested one way and Satan suggested another and God picked Jesus's suggestion which angered his 'brother' and that is why we are where we are?

Again, don't know much about Mormons, but THAT story always stuck in my craw.

Doesn't matter, I will likely NOT vote for Romney anyway.

Yes that is what they believe. Which reminds me of another difference, they don't believe in original sin; you know Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit. Again that is a fundamental difference to Christianity.

Thanks. I wasn't sure I had heard that right when I heard it. Now I know!

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

The bible does speak of the planet Kalob. Anyway I will have to investigate this further. As far as I know Mormons believe in the old new and there testament. Having many conversations with them.

Exactly! They are Christians like the rest. This is nonsense and once again my friends believe in the bible with one god and I suppose Glenn Beck and my friends are just lying to the public and me. Im a atheist and I find this stuff offensive big time. Its like saying all atheists are liberal christian hating tree huggers. You can find odd balls believing and doing things in every form of Christianity from catholic to baptist.

I am not a Mitt Romney fan and as far as I know they believe in one god.

ssvs04 wrote:

Exactly! They are Christians like the rest. This is nonsense and once again my friends believe in the bible with one god and I suppose Glenn Beck and my friends are just lying to the public and me. Im a atheist and I find this stuff offensive big time. Its like saying all atheists are liberal christian hating tree huggers. You can find odd balls believing and doing things in every form of Christianity from catholic to baptist.

I'm sorry but this is what MAINSTREAM Mormonism teaches! This is all from their founder Joseph Smith and is what they believe. Beck and your friends aren't lying to you, they just don't talk about the 'weird' parts of their religion in public, they only talk about the parts that go along with, or at least appear to go along with, the Bible.

Since you brought up Glenn Beck, read this... "Is a Glenn Beck a Christian?" http://carm.org/glenn-beck-christian

What Mormons believe isn't a secret, people know. But most people don't bother to find out.

Here's a Catholic news source talking about how the Catholic church says Mormons aren't Christian, or are the Catholics lying too? Why would they? After all they do say Protestants, Methodist, Lutherans, etc are all Christians and recognize their baptisms, but not Mormons. Why? For the same reasons I've already said.

http://ncronline.org/blogs/young-voices/catholics-and-mormons-shotgun-wedding

An excerpt...

Quote :

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints describe themselves as Christians, because they worship Christ, honor the Bible as one of the books that they use for faith formation, and they even have the word Jesus in their full name. Perhaps sociologically, Mormons don't appear much different than other Christians. However, theologically they are very different.

There are irreconcilable differences, as noted in a document the Institute for Religious Research published in 1999. Roman Catholics (and all Christians) believe in monotheism; the Mormon church teaches that there are many Gods. This article points out that people can even become gods and goddesses themselves in the celestial kingdom and have children that worship them.

ssvs04, you don't want to believe me or the hundreds of of website that all say the same thing, then ask your Mormon friends these questions...

Was God always God, or did he used to be a man?

Are there other gods?

Is it possible for men to become gods themselves?

(If they say yes to any of these, they don't believe in the same God as Jews or Christians so aren't Christian.)


Ask them, do you believe in immaculate conception (that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus)?

Is Jesus God himself?

(If they say no to either of these, they are not Christians because these are fundamental principles of Christianity.)

In the end does it really matter? Catholics believe in 3 gods. The father the son and the holy ghost. Christians believe Jesus is god. I am not going to nit pick about someone religion. I will leave that to the atheist and liberals.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

In the end does it really matter? Catholics believe in 3 gods. The father the son and the holy ghost. Christians believe Jesus is god. I am not going to nit pick about someone religion. I will leave that to the atheist and liberals.

Catholics DO NOT believe in three Gods. Catholic's only believe in one God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all facets of the Same God. Think of it this way, here's a three sided die...



The Father, Son and Holy spirit are the three sides of the die(God). Catholics are Christians, and all Christians believe in one God only.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

In the end does it really matter?

It doesn't matter to people that don't care what religion Romney is. It doesn't matter to people that don't care if he's religious or not. It doesn't matter to a lot of other people as well.

It does matter to many Christian people who know what Christian Fundamental beliefs are, who are simply taking Mormons at their say so and support Romney thinking he is a Christian. That is why I'm reporting this, so those people will know the truth.

If they want to support him anyway, fine. I'm not saying anybody should support, or not support, him based on whether or not he is Christian. I simply want people to know the truth, so that some will not be mislead into supporting him on false grounds. That's it.

Sorry but Jesus is not god. Never will be god. The son of god yes but not god. I have Christians preach Jesus is god. So at the very least they believe in 2 gods. While I only believe in one god. Jesus the son of god I do not know where the hell they get the holy spirit.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Sorry but Jesus is not god. Never will be god. The son of god yes but not god. I have Christians preach Jesus is god. So at the very least they believe in 2 gods. While I only believe in one god. Jesus the son of god I do not know where the hell they get the holy spirit.

No, they believe in one God. Jesus is God and is the Holy Spirit all at the same time.

But whatever, that is your belief. Most Christians take a Trinitarian view, the holy trinity. A few take a oneness view. The two will argue about some semantics but when it come down to it they believe the same thing; God, Jesus, the Holy spirit are all one and the same. I don't usually source Wiki for something like this, but reading over what they say for both listing, it looks more or less correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism



I take it your not part of any mainstream religious group; Methodist, Catholic, Protestant, etc? Not that there is anything wrong with it if you're not, but your beliefs are not mainstream Christian beliefs. Actually you sound like a believer in binitarianism, which is a belief, I'm pretty sure, only currently held by some "7th Day Church of God" people who broke away from the old "Worldwide Church of God", which is different form the current church of that name.

Again, like Mormons, these are recent churches (last couple hundred years) and don't adhere to all the the traditional Christian beliefs.

But as I've said a few times now, my only purpose with this topic is to set the facts straight so people aren't mislead. I've laid out what Mormons believe and contrasted it to fundamental Christianity. Whether people care or not, or believe it or not, my job is done.

Hopefully anybody that does care or is concerned about what I've said, will research it for themselves.

eber322 wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Sorry but Jesus is not god. Never will be god. The son of god yes but not god. I have Christians preach Jesus is god. So at the very least they believe in 2 gods. While I only believe in one god. Jesus the son of god I do not know where the hell they get the holy spirit.

No, they believe in one God. Jesus is God and is the Holy Spirit all at the same time.

But whatever, that is your belief. Most Christians take a Trinitarian view, the holy trinity. A few take a oneness view. The two will argue about some semantics but when it come down to it they believe the same thing; God, Jesus, the Holy spirit are all one and the same. I don't usually source Wiki for something like this, but reading over what they say for both listing, it looks more or less correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism



I take it your not part of any mainstream religious group; Methodist, Catholic, Protestant, etc? Not that there is anything wrong with it if you're not, but your beliefs are not mainstream Christian beliefs. Actually you sound like a believer in binitarianism, which is a belief, I'm pretty sure, only currently held by some "7th Day Church of God" people who broke away from the old "Worldwide Church of God", which is different form the current church of that name.

Again, like Mormons, these are recent churches (last couple hundred years) and don't adhere to all the the traditional Christian beliefs.

But as I've said a few times now, my only purpose with this topic is to set the facts straight so people aren't mislead. I've laid out what Mormons believe and contrasted it to fundamental Christianity. Whether people care or not, or believe it or not, my job is done.

Hopefully anybody that does care or is concerned about what I've said, will research it for themselves.

I believe in god I believe that Jesus is gods son. But I do not believe they are one in the same. Just like my son is not me.

Ok, not a Christian view, but it's your prerogative to believe as you want.

eber322 wrote:

Ok, not a Christian view, but it's your prerogative to believe as you want.

I have seen no place in the bible where it says Jesus is god.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

I have seen no place in the bible where it says Jesus is god.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.

John 10:30-31
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:38-39
The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.

John 14:9
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Colossians 1:16
For by him [Jesus] were all things created.

Colossians 2:9
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
God was made manifest in the flesh.

Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Revelation 1:17
Fear not; I am the first and the last.

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

I can't recall the details accurately but Mormons believe in several "levels of heaven"

Level 1: People who follow mans law here on earth
Level 2: reserved for Mormons and Jews, Mormons who do well here go to..
Level 3: there "god" exist on this level, if u excel well here you get to create your own universe and be a god

This may be lil inaccurate, but for all intent here it proves they are not christians.

Why were on the subject, why the hell do christians say Amen? I read a link between this and the egyptian god named Amen. Anyone have any other suggestions?:)