How stupid are these people?

Concerning: http://forums.syfy.com/index.php?showtopic=2349136 in which the author is referring to and apparently advocating: http://www.thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project-introduction/faq

How stupid are these people?

And, how long before a mod blows it away as a political topic?

LOL, I just 'pushed' its eventual demise a little bit. Go check it out!

Some of the mods (MBG) are probably liable to leave the original post and delete our responses.
Myself, I'm probably not going to waste much effort discussing it with him. Anyone who really believes that tripe can't have a solid grounding in reality.

MBG cannot mod that thread. Squall can however someone will have to complain. I did respond and I was very respectful.

Yes you did, POV. LOVED the Jamestown reference! You know what was truly distressing about his little fantasy? The site he chose was obviously based on someone watching too much STAR TREK! It was nearly word for word the history of Star Trek. A nice fantasy, but then so was the Jetsons!

The whole idea of a society without money is faulty. It won't work period.

Even in the future setting of Star Trek it won't work. Sure in that future people won't have do cr@ppy jobs like garbage collectors and sewer workers, etc because the tech does it for them. And maybe you even have holographic doctors etc to fill the shortage. Sure some people will decide to be a doctor, lawyer, whatever just because they want to even though they don't get paid. But far more will decide not to do a d@mn thing because nobodies going to make them, so why be a chef when the replicators will make it for you? And what about when the person who does decide to work has to take cr@p from a superior, coworker, or customer? They'd just quit. Why wouldn't they? They don't have to work, so if it sucks for even the smallest reason they'd just quit. The only people that would work would be the rare people with a passion. Like a scientist that is dead set on discovering or proving something. Or the Star fleet people who have a passion to explore etc. But that wouldn't be the majority. So who's going to fix all the tech when it starts to break and there's not enough technicians around to fix it? And what about when those techs get all fed up with the stress and pressure and quit?

The only way would be to force people to work with treat of violence, which wouldn't work well, or threat of withholding the food, rent, etc they have been getting for free. And as soon as you do either of those, guess what? You're back to a form of commerce. You trading your time for the "free" stuff or not getting beat and arrested. Same thing as if they set up a barter system to trade work for products or other work, just another form of commerce. Which is all money is, a standardized way to barter you product or time.

So, even in the Trek world it wouldn't work. What about in the real world where people need to wipe poopy butts in the hospital, shovel out stalls, scrape dead bodies off the road etc? Who's going to do that for free?

But lets forget all that and pretend everybody is working even the cr@p jobs without complaint. What happens when one person wants that apartment with the one in a million view? Or the rare first edition book from a hundred years ago? Etc, etc,etc. Not everybody can have that, but the people who want it and can't have it will either resort to violence to take it, or they'll somehow try give the person who has what they want something in exchange to convince them. In other words we're back to commerce.

No matter how you look at it, even in a nearly perfect world like Trek, everything would either quickly collapse into chaos and anarchy, or some form of commerce would have to be established in order to hold it all together. And the simply fact is, money is the easiest way to handle commerce.

Totally true! In fact, on TNG the officers are always playing poker. I don't get what they are playing for? There isn't any need for money!

Sheesh, Eber322, you don't expect these people to apply rational, logical thought processes to their harebrained schemes, do you?

I noticed after Walter got a hold of that guy he never replied back LMAO.

No? I didn't mean to scare him away! I SAID his opinions were, well, his opinions! I should learn to 'play' better.

Lol Well you did a good job anyway.

I like how he not so cleverly 'hid' a topic, which was a borderline pro-communism piece in science fiction such as star trek...

A capitalist society would work just fine, but the whole argument of corruption and stuff doesn't come from the money, it comes from the people that are really corrupt, and that's the left. We've seen culture in America degrade more and more with each decade. That's where the decadence comes from.

It's all a trick to make us all run to the socialists to be saved..

I see this guy finally responded.

Yeah, I saw that. Didn't waste alot of time on him, though.

On another matter, I saw your "Nature's Horror's post.. I thought sure that you were going to link to a pic of Pelosi.

MBG has given me yet another display of her incompetence as a moderator.

Responding to DutyCall's peeve about the high cost of Adobe Photoshop, I posted:

Far be it from me to suggest obtaining illegal software, but Photoshop is the most widely pirated software around.
I went on to suggest she try using The Gimp, which is an open source free graphics program, and provided direct links to the Gimp site and the download site, as well as pointing out that there is a windows port of it.

Yep, you guessed it. MBG deleted the post claiming that I was advocating software piracy.

She doesn't even properly research the posts she's deleting. Probably doesn't even read them all the way through.

Report her ass. I would.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Report her ass. I would.

I did. I was working with scifiadmin1 regarding the username/email address change anyway, so I copied the entire dialog over.. Utter BS response which boiled down to they're supporting her.

I hate admin1. S/he is so condescending it's painful to talk to her/him. As soon as you have a problem with something s/he does, or with what any other admin or mod does, s/he becomes so infuriatingly polite while explaining to you what an idiot you are. S/he talks to you as if you are an ignorant little child who is automatically wrong despite the problem. No matter what happens it does no good to complain about any adim or mod, you will be automatically wrong. S/he doesn't even bother to talk to MBG about what went on, you're just wrong, that's it. There have been dozens of complaints about MBG to admin1 all to no eval.

I have not yet gave Admin 1 my dialog with her I gave it to Squall and ever since then MBG has not been allowed to talk to me. Maybe I should have gave it to Admin 1 not sure what would happen but all I know is she is off my back since the conversation with Squall. You are better off talking to him then her. He was the one that talked me out of giving the PMs to Admin 1.

Francesca just asked me, concerning this Great societal idea of sharing resources, what if you wanted a painting? How would you BUY it? How would you BARTER for it? You said there was no more of those in this future, so what is left? Should she just TAKE it as in STEAL it? :suspect:
That question/scenario kinda tears down THAT whole idea of a 'perfect' society right there, doesn't it? :scratch:

Walterth3rd wrote:

Francesca just asked me, concerning this Great societal idea of sharing resources, what if you wanted a painting? How would you BUY it? How would you BARTER for it? You said there was no more of those in this future, so what is left? Should she just TAKE it as in STEAL it? :suspect:
That question/scenario kinda tears down THAT whole idea of a 'perfect' society right there, doesn't it? :scratch:

Yes what if you want a grill or if you want some beach front property a time share or if you want to decorate your house. Go on vacation how would you barter for all that.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

I have not yet gave Admin 1 my dialog with her I gave it to Squall and ever since then MBG has not been allowed to talk to me. Maybe I should have gave it to Admin 1 not sure what would happen but all I know is she is off my back since the conversation with Squall. You are better off talking to him then her. He was the one that talked me out of giving the PMs to Admin 1.

Maybe I will talk to Squall next time I cross swords with MBG. Although he doesn't seem to frequent the General board, where most of the issues arise.

Edited post.
It appears that maybe it wasn't censorship; the boards went down this am, and after they came back, the posts I had thought were deleted were back. Might have been a board issue.
If they vanish again, however...

I have a copy, this time, however. =)

Native Americans had the closest to what they are talking about, but, there was barter and trade. There is just no way to make what they are talking about work, "It looks great on paper but, when you include the Human factor, it just gets screwed up"

My one and half cents That should tick em off :D