Why We Suck!

BAHAHA. That is great. I love it.

Well from our Ron Paul discussions dont quite agree with your belief in our foriegn policy. And im not exactly in line with the standard Republican belief in our foriegn policy. But do believe no matter how much we pulled away and tried to leave them alone it would not make a difference in there belief to attack us and destroy our way of life.

Just imagine..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKfuS6gfxPY

We already have that one somewhere around here from a month or so ago. Its the video that really pissed me off with him.

ssvs04 wrote:

We already have that one somewhere around here from a month or so ago. Its the video that really pissed me off with him.

O.. what don't you like about?

ssvs04 wrote:

We already have that one somewhere around here from a month or so ago. Its the video that really pissed me off with him.

Why would that piss you off? It's perfectly true. And even before we sent troops into their countries the CIA was murdering their leaders and replacing them with leaders which served our purpose. Damn - I'd be mad if other countries did that to us. Wouldn't you?

Skycastle wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

We already have that one somewhere around here from a month or so ago. Its the video that really pissed me off with him.

Why would that piss you off? It's perfectly true. And even before we sent troops into their countries the CIA was murdering their leaders and replacing them with leaders which served our purpose. Damn - I'd be mad if other countries did that to us. Wouldn't you?

That is why you need a strong military. So they cannot do that. But they are doing that. They are coming here to blow things up. They have already blown things up. Those that are responsible do not care if we are in the country or not. They would find some other excuse to kill us or blow us up. It is not about us invading there country it is about a radical religion trying to either convert you or kill you if you do not.

Skycastle wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Skycastle wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

Its the video that really pissed me off with him.

Why would that piss you off? It's perfectly true. And even before we sent troops into their countries the CIA was murdering their leaders and replacing them with leaders which served our purpose. Damn - I'd be mad if other countries did that to us. Wouldn't you?

1) They have already blown things up. Those that are responsible do not care if we are in their country or not.
2) They would find some other excuse to kill us or blow us up. It is not about us invading there country...

First, really? They DON'T CARE that we've invaded their country and murdered tens of thousands of innocent civilians, or that our troops patrol their streets daily? How do you KNOW that? If you were in their position and foreign troops were patrolling the streets of your city, wouldn't YOU fight back?

Second, how do you KNOW it's NOT about us invading their country?

Let me be clear. No matter what spreading Islam is there number one goal. Regardless if we were in there country or not they would find a reason to attack us. If not for in there country then supporting Israel. If not that then for being Christian. If not that then for being atheist. If not that then for not killing off all gays. If not for that then for the porn in this country. Regardless if were in there country or not they would find a reason to kill us hate us. Now it is not the governments that have the problem. It is the radical Islamist that have the problem.

I will NEVER blame America for what they do. Obama has tried to reason with Iran at first. Iran said piss off. I do not care if we have sanctions against Iran or not the government will never change and never like us or respect us. The only thing these people respect is power.

Lets say we left all the countries closed the borders and said alright your on your own world. You actually think they would stop the terrorism?

It all depends. If Obama became a dictator and there was some outside force that could only remove him then yes I would help them remove Obama. Wouldn't you?

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Skycastle wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

We already have that one somewhere around here from a month or so ago. Its the video that really pissed me off with him.

Why would that piss you off? It's perfectly true. And even before we sent troops into their countries the CIA was murdering their leaders and replacing them with leaders which served our purpose. Damn - I'd be mad if other countries did that to us. Wouldn't you?

That is why you need a strong military. So they cannot do that. But they are doing that. They are coming here to blow things up. They have already blown things up. Those that are responsible do not care if we are in the country or not. They would find some other excuse to kill us or blow us up. It is not about us invading there country it is about a radical religion trying to either convert you or kill you if you do not.

Bingo! Exactly, but Ron Paul supporters just cant see the world and history of the past and countless invasions into other countries no matter how peaceful or how much trade they did.

YawnGG wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

We already have that one somewhere around here from a month or so ago. Its the video that really pissed me off with him.

O.. what don't you like about?

Here is what I said about it here before and Im saying it again.


It angers me that he is basically saying our American soldiers are acting like thugs every where we go. Iraq people were greatful for what we did and having us there. The people attacking Americans and Iraqs over there are not Iraqs upset with us being there but the Iranian soldiers and terrorists coming in.

And I posted videos of US soldiers shooting civilians for "fun".

ssvs04 wrote:

Bingo! Exactly, but Ron Paul supporters just cant see the world and history of the past and countless invasions into other countries no matter how peaceful or how much trade they did.

I think you've got that backwards there. It's Ron Paul supporters who do know the history of the countless invasions of peaceful countries, even of allied countries. Invasions that were carried out by the USA.

It was the USA that sent in the CIA to overthrow the legitimate elected ruler of Iran back in 1953. Why, because he decided he wouldn't sell oil to England any more because they wouldn't pay what he felt it was worth. England didn't want to pay more, so they got us to overthrow the Iran government and put a dictator in place who'd sell them oil cheap. This same line of dictators still run Iran, the ones who kill innocent people daily for wanting freedom and rights. The USA is responsibly for all of it, we put them in power and we allow them to do it.

Now I'm sure some of you think that was justified. We took out a peaceful pro-west legitimately elected government and put deadly dictators in place all to save money on oil. But somehow you'll spin that as necessity. But how would you feel if we invaded an ally country without warning or reason?

"The US wouldn't do that!", you say. But what if we did? How would you feel if we sent troops into say, Canada, rounded up all the politicians and locked them away in prison? How would you feel if we occupied that country with force and denied the people their rights? What if we then started sending people into Canada, both US civilian residents and temporary US military base residents, and allowed them to vote on whether to make Canada a state? Of course we wouldn't like that you say! But the US would NEVER do that you say! What if I told you we already did?

Jan. 17, 1893, the US seized control of a peaceful friendly country. One that we did trade with, one that called us a friend, and that we called a friend in turn. Why did we do it? We wanted their sugar. More specifically, a man named Sanford B. Dole, as in Dole fruit, wanted it. So after talking with his buddies in DC, including President Harrison, he got the Captain of US ship in harbor to land armed Marines who then marched on that countries seat of power. A palace that was both their capital building and the home of their Queen.

News of the invasion spread ahead of the incoming Marines, and the Queens Royal Guard bravely took position to defend the palace and their Queen. They were drastically outnumbered and they'd never seen real action. The people of this nation had never been at war, not since the nation itself had been united decades past. The Queen knew that even if they managed to win the battle, it would be a blood bath. Worse so because civilians were coming to help, most armed only with sticks, tools of their trade, or hundred year old spears their ancestors had used. So, she ordered her troops and people to put down their weapons. Then she bravely surrendered....

Quote :

"I, Lili`uokalani, by the grace of God and under the constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom, Queen, do hereby solemnly protest against any and all acts done against myself and the constitutional government of the Hawaiian Kingdom by certain persons claiming to have established a Provisional Government of and for this Kingdom.

"That I yield to the superior force of the United States of America, whose Minister Plenipotentiary, His Excellency John L. Stevens, has caused United States troops to be landed at Honolulu and declared that he would support the said Provisional Government.

"Now, to avoid any collision of armed forces and perhaps loss of life, I do, under this protest, and impelled by said forces, yield my authority until such time as the Government of the United States shall, upon the facts being presented to it, undo the action of its representative and reinstate me in the authority which I claim as the constitutional sovereign of the Hawaiian Islands."

You see even then she had faith in her "friend" the US. Despite the fact US diplomats, citizens, and troops had conspired to seize her government by force, she thought it would all be fixed as soon as Washington found out. Except Washington already knew. President Harrison waited as the "provisional government" of Hawaii, made up of US citizens and politicians, sped representatives to Washington with treaty of annexation to 'officially' make Hawaii theirs.

Harrison was shortly replaced by incoming President Cleveland. He tried to set things right but it was to no avail. The most he managed to do was keep Congress from officially annexing the nation. But the "provisional government" stayed in place and seized large chunks of land from their rightful owners, many of them were then traded to the US, such as Pearl Harbor. The Queen was under house arrest until 1896. As soon as she was released she went directly to Cleveland and begged for his help, free her nation and reinstate her as queen. Cleveland could do nothing....

Quote :

"I am ashamed of the whole affair."

His successor, William McKinley, sent the annexation treaty to the Senate.

The only heir to the throne, a young healthy princess of 23, died under mysterious circumstances. The Queen lived on until 1917 when she died of old age at 79. Eventually the illegally seized and occupied country of Hawaii was put up to a vote for statehood under international law. That law, written as a response to how territories were treated in WWII, said that people of territories not under their own governance must be allowed, every so many years, to vote on their own status. The law required at least three options, become a member of their protector nation, remain a protectorate, or gain independence.

The US allowed US citizens and military stationed in Hawaii to vote, neither of which were legal as they were US citizens not citizens of the protectorate of Hawaii. And worse yet, the US left the third option, the one for independence, off the ballot.

So about a 120 years ago the US illegally seized a peaceful friendly nation, stole their land and rights, and perhaps even eliminated the rightful heir to the crown. And then 53 years ago the US held an illegal vote and made that nation our fiftieth state.

http://www.hawaii-nation.org/



Contrast that with "big bad Iran", you know the country that hasn't invaded another country in 216 years.

Skycastle wrote:

ssvs04 wrote:

Iraq people were greatful for what we did and having us there.

No, they weren't grateful - I showed you the British survey which proved they didn't want us there. Remember?

They were grateful. The average person in Iraq was grateful that Saddam was gone. Do you really think some British survey is going to honest?

However my question still stands. If Obama knew he was going to lose the election and decided to install a dictatorship which I read someplace that Obama is replacing American officers with Mexican officers in the military because the American officers said they would not attack American civilians. You guys are telling if some country had the means to expel Obama you would fight against that country and fight for Obama?

See I can play the same game Ron Paul plays.

Now how about my last question. If Obama declared a dictatorship and there was a country that could overthrow him. A would you fight with the country that was trying to stop Obama?

Or B would you fight for Obama stopping the country to overthrow him?

This is a very real possibility.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Now how about my last question. If Obama declared a dictatorship and there was a country that could overthrow him. A would you fight with the country that was trying to stop Obama?

Or B would you fight for Obama stopping the country to overthrow him?

This is a very real possibility.

No it isn't a very real possibility. Obama is never going to announce that he is a dictator. They are going to try and keep electing these puppet presidents controlled by the same people, and progressively give them more and more dictator like powers. 4-8 years is plenty when you every other guy in line besides Paul is going to chase the money trail they put out. The illusion of freedom will keep this trend going longer then if they tried to change us over to an official dictatorship.

Skycastle wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Now how about my last question. If Obama declared a dictatorship and there was a country that could overthrow him. A would you fight with the country that was trying to stop Obama? Or B would you fight for Obama stopping the country to overthrow him? This is a very real possibility.

I'd join with the country that was helping us against Obama, as the French helped us overthrow the British in the Revolutionary War. But you have no right too assume that it's the same way with Iraq. The poll shows otherwise.

I am not talking about polls. People hated Saddam Hussien. Now I am sorry if I am suspect of those polls but I am.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Skycastle wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Now how about my last question. If Obama declared a dictatorship and there was a country that could overthrow him. A would you fight with the country that was trying to stop Obama? Or B would you fight for Obama stopping the country to overthrow him? This is a very real possibility.

I'd join with the country that was helping us against Obama, as the French helped us overthrow the British in the Revolutionary War. But you have no right too assume that it's the same way with Iraq. The poll shows otherwise.

I am not talking about polls. People hated Saddam Hussien. Now I am sorry if I am suspect of those polls but I am.

I'd help the people overthrow Obama right now, why wait for the dictatorship lol.