Work At Will

As imporatnt as Work place harassment is, as somebody who was harassed at work I know, it's not the biggest issue as far as work place rights. The biggest issue that denies workers their fair rights is the "Work At Will" clause that so many companies have, and even several states brag about being "Work At Will" states. That is what screwed me over with that former employer in the end, not the harassment. If you're not in a union shop, and you sign a "Work at Will" contact, you just signed away nearly all your rights and can get fired with or without reason at any time. Most of the established laws that protect you from wrongful termination apply to you because you signed those rights away. The worst part is that you usually have no choice. I have not seen a single employment contact in over ten years that didn't have a "Work At Will" clause in it. So what choice do I have? I either sign away my protections against being wrongfully terminated, or I can't ever work.

eber322 wrote:

As imporatnt as Work place harassment is, as somebody who was harassed at work I know, it's not the biggest issue as far as work place rights. The biggest issue that denies workers their fair rights is the "Work At Will" clause that so many companies have, and even several states brag about being "Work At Will" states. That is what screwed me over with that former employer in the end, not the harassment. If you're not in a union shop, and you sign a "Work at Will" contact, you just signed away nearly all your rights and can get fired with or without reason at any time. Most of the established laws that protect you from wrongful termination apply to you because you signed those rights away. The worst part is that you usually have no choice. I have not seen a single employment contact in over ten years that didn't have a "Work At Will" clause in it. So what choice do I have? I either sign away my protections against being wrongfully terminated, or I can't ever work.

I am in a right to work state. Even though these things say this I have known cases that have been won. We had a lady that was fired because of an illness. She was out longer then six months. She won her case. Work at will does not mean you give away all your rights. Yes they can just up and fire you for no reason. However they fire you for whistle blowing that is just one example. You can still sue. It does limit your ability to sue but you still can in certain circumstances.

You can still win, but it much harder. You have to prove they discriminated against you for race, religion, disability, etc. Like I said you don't lose all your rights, but most of them, and it's hundred times less likely that you'll win a suit in that situation.

I talked to three lawyers after I was fired. All of them said I'd never win a suit because of the "Work at Will" clause. Without that clause in my employment contract they all said they would have represented me without being paid up front, the case was that slam dunk. With the clause they said I had about a 1% chance of winning (one lawyer said no chance), so I'd have to pay them thousands up front. Depending on how long it went on, it could have cost me +20k, and I was dead broke.

So regardless "Work at Will" /"Right to Work" should be done away with. It doesn't help the employee at all, all it does is help the employer screw you over.

eber322 wrote:

You can still win, but it much harder. You have to prove they discriminated against you for race, religion, disability, etc. Like I said you don't lose all your rights, but most of them, and it's hundred times less likely that you'll win a suit in that situation.

I talked to three lawyers after I was fired. All of them said I'd never win a suit because of the "Work at Will" clause. Without that clause in my employment contract they all said they would have represented me without being paid up front, the case was that slam dunk. With the clause they said I had about a 1% chance of winning (one lawyer said no chance), so I'd have to pay them thousands up front. Depending on how long it went on, it could have cost me +20k, and I was dead broke.

So regardless "Work at Will" /"Right to Work" should be done away with. It doesn't help the employee at all, all it does is help the employer screw you over.

Oh ya it is a lot harder. Virginia calls it Right to Work state. Now Right to Work states do have advantages also. Take unions. If there is a union where you work and you decide not to join then you do not have to pay union dues.

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Now Right to Work states do have advantages also. Take unions. If there is a union where you work and you decide not to join then you do not have to pay union dues.

Depends on how you figure it. If you don't have to join the union you save dues, true. But then you can easily be screwed over by the employer. If you join the union not only do you not sign away any of your rights, but the union will fight for your rights and foot the bill, usually, if you need to sue. Myself I'd say the union is the advantage in a case of wrongful termination, not the other way around.

eber322 wrote:

Pissedoffvulcan wrote:

Now Right to Work states do have advantages also. Take unions. If there is a union where you work and you decide not to join then you do not have to pay union dues.

Depends on how you figure it. If you don't have to join the union you save dues, true. But then you can easily be screwed over by the employer. If you join the union not only do you not sign away any of your rights, but the union will fight for your rights and foot the bill, usually, if you need to sue. Myself I'd say the union is the advantage in a case of wrongful termination, not the other way around.

Sure you can but that does not happen to much in Virginia. Other states not so sure. I know in WV if the company is union even if you do not want to join then you still have to pay the dues. Same with Maine. I have not had a problem yet but then again I work for the state so it is a little harder fire me.

I was just saying there is good and bad.

I see what you are saying. Here in Michigan you have to join the union if you get hired into a union shop as well. I guess I just don't see it as a problem since if I was given a choice I'd join the union anyway.

I can see how maybe I might not want to join in some instances. Like if I knew I was only going to stay there like a year or two anyway then quit, then I'd probably rather keep the dues and just gamble on not having any problems in short term.

NY state is a "work at will" state. In practical terms, unless you're in a union shop, you can be canned if they don't like the color of your hair or any other reason. They don't even have to cite a reason. Services no longer required is reason enough.

eber322 wrote:

I see what you are saying. Here in Michigan you have to join the union if you get hired into a union shop as well. I guess I just don't see it as a problem since if I was given a choice I'd join the union anyway.

I can see how maybe I might not want to join in some instances. Like if I knew I was only going to stay there like a year or two anyway then quit, then I'd probably rather keep the dues and just gamble on not having any problems in short term.

My brother in law was part of a union in Maine. The company said hey we have to reduce wages or we will have to shut down. The union said a big fffffffffff U. Well the company shut down and over 1000 people unemployed. It was years before the paper company was bought now there is no union there and they are working for about 50 percent less then they were before. The company only wanted a 10 percent lower wages. They bit the hand that fed them.